GEN 2 Gen2 gearbox oil change interval

[Old-Raptor-guy]

Well, this is a theory or one of the conspiracy theories... but wouldn't you like to understand the real engineering theory behind this decision to change the gearbox oil at 150K miles?

I understand the engineering. And believe it or not the bean counters have a lot more input than you would think, maybe more than engineering in most cases. I will give you some examples I know of.

Back in 80's, the manual transmission fluids and transfer case fluids were changed from 90wt gear oil to ATF. Now to be clear these were new transmission and transfercase designs and I AM NOT saying the old gear lube gear cases can or should use ATF.

The new designs were definitely made for lighter oils. But not quite as light as the manufacturers wanted/needed to help meet government MPG requirements (pesky government again).

The two cases I know of specifically are the following.

The ZF 5 speed (later became 6 speed) in the F250 and F350 was designed for 5w-30 engine oil, as were the New Process transfer cases.

Ford asked both companies to evaluate the use of ATF.

ZF came back and said it would work but would drop the average life of the transmission by about 45,000 miles.

New Process came back and said average life of the T-case would drop about 50,000 miles.

This put both into the 160,000 mile life expectation and was deemed good enough by FOMOCO (don't blame FOMOCO, every manufacturer did it).

Guess what fluids have been in my ZF6 speed and Transfer case for the last 20 years.

If you think any manufacturer cares about you indefinitely you are nuts.

Next case, unrelated to fluids.

In taking with on of the main engineers for international on the 6.0 powerstroke. Engineering wanted a fuel pressure sensor in the system.

The bean counters said NO, that it would add $200 to the cost of each engine and that other manufacturers didn't need one so international didn't need one either.

The Garrett turbo on the 6.0 was originally designed with a VGT position sensor, international deleted it so save money.

Years later it was estimated that the inclusion of those two sensors could have saved international and Ford almost 100 million dollars in warranty repairs.

The duramax uses the same Garrett turbo charger VGT system and it DOES have the position sensor. Story is Garrett easily sold GM on the system by showing all the issues international was having without it.

You gotta be pretty naive if you think the manufacturer (of anything) has your best interests at heart. Cigarette companies should have proven that decades ago.

 

[Old-Raptor-guy]

Considering what you say, it is very sad. Does this mean that I, the user of the car, should not trust the advice of the Ford manufacturer? Doesn't he want to enjoy the longevity of an F150 that runs without gearbox repairs for over 1,000,000 miles?

It isn't sad, it is business. I am happy for you to explain what benefit Ford Gets from a vehicle lasting more than 10 years/150,000 miles.

 

[nikhsub1]

yup i do 20k on these guys, no issue. Dad does the same with his jeep and hes at 100k no problemo

20k seems a bit excessive? I would think that 75k on the trans would be suffice?

 

[Space Ghost]

20k seems a bit excessive? I would think that 75k on the trans would be suffice?

maybe, but i dont mind doin it. Rather risk "wasting money" changing it early than dealin with issues down the road.
My lightning is at 207k miles and i do oil at 2.5k, trans 5k, diff at 50k
Running great at 650hp and 700tq
Now to me 20k seems excessively long to change the raptors trans & t-case haha

 

[ViMo]

Înțeleg ingineria. Și credeți sau nu, contoarele de fasole au mult mai multă intrare decât ați crede, poate mai mult decât inginerie în majoritatea cazurilor. Vă voi da câteva exemple pe care le cunosc.

În anii 80, fluidele de transmisie manuală și fluidele de cutie de transfer au fost schimbate de la uleiul de viteză de 90wt la ATF. Acum, pentru a fi clar, acestea au fost noi modele de transmisie și cutie de transfer și NU spun că vechile cutii de viteze de lubrifiere a angrenajului pot sau ar trebui să folosească ATF.

Noile modele au fost cu siguranță făcute pentru uleiuri mai ușoare. Dar nu chiar atât de ușor pe cât și-au dorit/aveau nevoie producătorii pentru a ajuta la îndeplinirea cerințelor guvernamentale MPG (guvernament plictisitor din nou).

Cele două cazuri pe care le cunosc în mod specific sunt următoarele.

ZF cu 5 viteze (mai târziu a devenit 6 viteze) la F250 și F350 a fost proiectat pentru ulei de motor 5w-30, la fel ca și carcasele de transfer New Process.

Ford a cerut ambelor companii să evalueze utilizarea ATF.

ZF s-a întors și a spus că va funcționa, dar va reduce durata medie de viață a transmisiei cu aproximativ 45.000 de mile.

New Process a revenit și a spus că durata medie de viață a carcasei T va scădea cu aproximativ 50.000 de mile.

Acest lucru le-a pus pe ambele în așteptarea de viață de 160.000 de mile și a fost considerat suficient de bun de către FOMOCO (nu da vina pe FOMOCO, fiecare producător a făcut-o).

Ghiciți ce fluide au fost în viteza mea ZF6 și în carcasa de transfer în ultimii 20 de ani.

Dacă crezi că vreun producător îi pasă de tine la infinit, ești nebun.

Cazul următor, fără legătură cu fluide.

Luând cu unul dintre principalii ingineri internaționali pe 6.0 powerstroke. Engineering a vrut un senzor de presiune a combustibilului în sistem.

Contoarele de fasole au spus NU, că ar adăuga 200 de dolari la costul fiecărui motor și că alți producători nu au nevoie de unul, așa că nici internaționali nu au nevoie de unul.

Turbo Garrett de pe 6.0 a fost proiectat inițial cu un senzor de poziție VGT, internațional l-a șters, așa că economisiți bani.

Ani mai târziu s-a estimat că includerea acelor doi senzori ar fi putut economisi internațional și Ford aproape 100 de milioane de dolari în reparații în garanție.

Duramax folosește același sistem VGT de turbo încărcător Garrett și are senzor de poziție. Povestea este că Garrett a vândut cu ușurință GM pe sistem, arătând toate problemele pe care internațional le avea fără el.

Trebuie să fii destul de naiv dacă crezi că producătorul (a orice) are în suflet interesele tale cele mai bune. Companiile de țigări ar fi trebuit să demonstreze asta cu zeci de ani în urmă.

 

[nikhsub1]

Im just about at 40K (got the truck new on December 2017) and wondering when I should do the tcase and trans... I've done the rear diff simply because I put a ford performance cover on...

 

[Space Ghost]

Im just about at 40K (got the truck new on December 2017) and wondering when I should do the tcase and trans... I've done the rear diff simply because I put a ford performance cover on...

my tcase at 30k was pretty black, and mine is a '20, moderate offroading, was kinda suprised, thought i could do that every 50k with the diff

 

[Old-Raptor-guy]

That transmission fluid life chart is best case.

Again a marketing thing.

If the fluid is sooooo good, and the engineering soooo good. Why is the transmission warranty not 150k.

The manufacturer says that is good for transmission life, yet they won't warranty the transmission for that.

Why is it that 99% of the transmissions I replace have never had a service and in general are before 150k.

At 10 years and 150,000 miles the average car is on its 3rd owner. If someone gets a new vehicle every 5 years or so then yea, 10k mile oil changes and 150,000 coolant and transmission fluid changes will work for that person.

Since I pretty much always own vehicles 20+ years and 300,000 miles longevity matters. 10 extra oil changes (full synthetic) is $1000. Ecoboost engine replacement is pushing $17,000.

 

[ViMo]

I don't understand anything anymore...the car manufacturer recommends changing the oil at 150K miles, the Dexron-ULV oil manufacturer also at 150K miles.
Car owners recommend 30...50K miles from their own experience. But I would really like to know the theory of the creators of lubricants/car ... or maybe I will never be able to find out. Anyway, the wisest way to go is prevention before discovering the disaster.

 

[Old-Raptor-guy]

I don't understand anything anymore...the car manufacturer recommends changing the oil at 150K miles, the Dexron-ULV oil manufacturer also at 150K miles.
Car owners recommend 30...50K miles from their own experience. But I would really like to know the theory of the creators of lubricants/car ... or maybe I will never be able to find out. Anyway, the wisest way to go is prevention before discovering the disaster.

I am sure fluids are better than they were 30 years ago. But power output of engines and also towing capacity have risen as well. And as you have stated the intended use of a Raptor is not easy on things. Why not over maintain some what.

This is a Tranmission Temp chart, it is a few years old but still applies. Heat breaks the fluid down faster than anything.