I did cam phasers in my garage, and you can too!

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spack

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another observation, the rotor veins did not leave any markings on the well hole plate. But did on the back plate and not symmetrically. One side in your picture shows no wear. But near where the spring cap is, there is lots. Like the rotor was not planar with the gear and plate or something.
 
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kindofblue

kindofblue

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BEWARE - OP is a liar. Took my channel locks, cordless drill, turkey baster, duct tape and hammer into the garage to start the project. Not going well even after 6 Red Bulls.
I neglected to mention that 6 Red Bulls was supplemented with 6 Garage Beers under Ford's Customer Satisfaction Program 69B420.
Substitute those out and you should be good to go. Apologies for the confusion.

Oh, and GO BLUE!! NATTY BABY!
 

dsiggi

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In for the follow..... It seems when these fail, 60K plus or minus a bit seems to be the number. My set went out right around there the first time. Second set so far, so good about 40k miles later.
 

spack

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In the attached an HLZ part is shown on the left, and the MLZ part is on the right. Previously in this post I stated that I'd not seen a failure mode like the one that started this thread. A disclaimer... Ive looked all over the place on the forums for pictures of failed parts. There aren't many. When Ford does a repair, we don't often get pictures. Maybe in total I've looked a 4 or 5 across several car vendors... Even McClaren and Lambo. Which is an extremely small sample. Of those 4 or 5, the failure mode is always the pin well being reamed out. And I've found patents that call this problem out. But that doesn't mean it's the only failure mode or even the dominant one. The failure mode we see on this thread is presumably, the plastic lock pin spring retainer, wears along the back plate of the phaser, and for whatever reason, disintegrates. Not enough oil perhaps. After that, the oil pressure which drives the pin out of lock, pushes it against the back plate instead of the spring retainer. And in this case it wore a slot in the back plate. The pin probably got smaller too until it either jammed, or the spring was so unaligned it couldn't push the pin back in the well.

I can say with some confidence, this specific failure mode CANNOT happen with the MLZ parts, oil or not. Note the plastic retainer for the HLZ part. The blue thing. It's free standing in the picture. It sits against the back plate at the top of the picture. It's pushed there under the constant pressure of the spring, and in operation, by oil pressure. But it's got play in the cavity which holds it. Note the MLZ retainer. It's red and you can see in on the rotor. It's not removed because unlike the HLZ part, the lock pin spring retainer of the MLZ part is press fit in the rotor. And it's in there tight! So... That plastic retainer is not in contact with the back plate and is thus not subject to wear.

I'm still hoping for pictures of the other 3 retainers. No problem if that's not possible. Just curious...

The next picture is just another view of the parts. There are some other differences but they aren't relevant in this specific case.
 

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kindofblue

kindofblue

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In the attached an HLZ part is shown on the left, and the MLZ part is on the right. Previously in this post I stated that I'd not seen a failure mode like the one that started this thread. A disclaimer... Ive looked all over the place on the forums for pictures of failed parts. There aren't many. When Ford does a repair, we don't often get pictures. Maybe in total I've looked a 4 or 5 across several car vendors... Even McClaren and Lambo. Which is an extremely small sample. Of those 4 or 5, the failure mode is always the pin well being reamed out. And I've found patents that call this problem out. But that doesn't mean it's the only failure mode or even the dominant one. The failure mode we see on this thread is presumably, the plastic lock pin spring retainer, wears along the back plate of the phaser, and for whatever reason, disintegrates. Not enough oil perhaps. After that, the oil pressure which drives the pin out of lock, pushes it against the back plate instead of the spring retainer. And in this case it wore a slot in the back plate. The pin probably got smaller too until it either jammed, or the spring was so unaligned it couldn't push the pin back in the well.

I can say with some confidence, this specific failure mode CANNOT happen with the MLZ parts, oil or not. Note the plastic retainer for the HLZ part. The blue thing. It's free standing in the picture. It sits against the back plate at the top of the picture. It's pushed there under the constant pressure of the spring, and in operation, by oil pressure. But it's got play in the cavity which holds it. Note the MLZ retainer. It's red and you can see in on the rotor. It's not removed because unlike the HLZ part, the lock pin spring retainer of the MLZ part is press fit in the rotor. And it's in there tight! So... That plastic retainer is not in contact with the back plate and is thus not subject to wear.

I'm still hoping for pictures of the other 3 retainers. No problem if that's not possible. Just curious...

The next picture is just another view of the parts. There are some other differences but they aren't relevant in this specific case.

Fantastic write-up, I appreciate the observations. And I am relieved to hear that this failure presumably can't happen with the ML3Z iteration.
I meant to snag photos of the other three this past weekend - but I did this repair up at my cabin, and I didn't end up making it up there as planned. I'll be up there this upcoming weekend and will 100% post them.
 

BigBlue20

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Wow! What a fantastic post kindofblue. I’m not sure what impressed me more - your wrenching skills or your ability to write a clear, concise technical report. Both your skills are awesome, which now a days is an oft overused term, but in your case still falls short of your abilities. And spack, your input is fantastic! Thanks to both of you!
 
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kindofblue

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Wow! What a fantastic post kindofblue. I’m not sure what impressed me more - your wrenching skills or your ability to write a clear, concise technical report. Both your skills are awesome, which now a days is an oft overused term, but in your case still falls short of your abilities. And spack, your input is fantastic! Thanks to both of you!
That's EXTREMELY kind of you to say, and perhaps the most genuine and sincere compliment I've received in a long time. Thank you, that means a lot to me!
 

Wilbur

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I've got just under 53k miles and mine is finally just now starting to make a noise on start-up for 5 seconds or so. I did just do an oil change this past weekend and they seem to have gotten better though.

Am I past the warranty cut off or do I still have time? After reading this post I'd really prefer not to try to do it myself.
 
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