Gen 1 with 4 Auto (TOD)

[Augster]

All sources so far point to the 5.2 S/C Predator engine from the GT500. It’s a Coyote derivative that has been significantly re-engineered to withstand boost and reliability generate 760HP. It will probably be somewhat detuned in a truck application due to the additional vehicle weight and towing capabilities.

If a detuned Predator 5.2, then it will be lower-spec'd than the TRX engine performance-wise, which would be a shame.

The 6.2 isn’t even a consideration, it was never designed for boost and went out of production in F-150 in 2014 model year.

If the 6.2L was no longer being manufactured, then yes, I would agree it would never be resurrected in the '50. Although I'm sure it won't be the 6.2, the fact that Ford still produces it for SuperDuty line means it's still a viable option for the F150 line even if it was removed from the lineup in 2015, which I believe was completely due to tightening CAFE standards versus 6.2L performance or reliability concerns. And the reality is that Ford DID sanction a supercharged 6.2L Raptor in the form of Rousch testifies that the 6.2L is capable of being boosted. But if Ford was serious, then they would bullet proof the bottom and top ends...

But with the TRX having a 6.2L AND supercharged, this provides a strong impetus that Ford should follow suit. I mean, that's why they are re-releasing a V8 in the Raptor: to compete against the TRX power-wise.

 

[FordTechOne]

If a detuned Predator 5.2, then it will be lower-spec'd than the TRX engine performance-wise, which would be a shame.

If the 6.2L was no longer being manufactured, then yes, I would agree it would never be resurrected in the '50. Although I'm sure it won't be the 6.2, the fact that Ford still produces it for SuperDuty line means it's still a viable option for the F150 line even if it was removed from the lineup in 2015, which I believe was completely due to tightening CAFE standards versus 6.2L performance or reliability concerns. And the reality is that Ford DID sanction a supercharged 6.2L Raptor in the form of Rousch testifies that the 6.2L is capable of being boosted. But if Ford was serious, then they would bullet proof the bottom and top ends...

But with the TRX having a 6.2L AND supercharged, this provides a strong impetus that Ford should follow suit. I mean, that's why they are re-releasing a V8 in the Raptor: to compete against the TRX power-wise.

Not sure why people get so hung up on the 6.2; you have to look at it's origins and capabilities. Its a work truck/fleet engine; it was never designed nor intended for a high performance application or for forced induction. They used it in Gen 1 Raptors because it was all they had available at the time that exceeded the 5.4 3V. It's the opposite of the Coyote, Hemi or the GM LS series, which were designed from the start to include high performance derivatives. Ford 6.2's was designed to replace the 5.4 at the base engine in the Super Duty, and it's certainly been successful in that purpose. However, the advantages it has over the modular architecture in HD applications (valvetrain design, physical size and weight of components) also make it a poor candidate for a performance application.

Roush sold an aftermarket supercharger kit to capitalize on Raptor owners who wanted more power; just because you "can" boost an NA engine doesn't mean you should. That is why so many met their demise through shattered oil pumps and broken connecting rods. Roush, like 99% of other aftermarket companies, validate their mods on a dyno and ship it. A 6.2 with a Roush supercharger wouldn't survive an hour in an OEM durability test, never mind the multiple days in an engine dyno lab required by OE manufacturers. I highly recommend reading the book "Iron Fist, Lead Foot", by former Ford Engineer John Colleti, which provides amazing context and insight into what truly goes into OE engineering.

 

[Jakenbake]

Not sure why people get so hung up on the 6.2; you have to look at it's origins and capabilities. Its a work truck/fleet engine; it was never designed nor intended for a high performance application or for forced induction. They used it in Gen 1 Raptors because it was all they had available at the time that exceeded the 5.4 3V. It's the opposite of the Coyote, Hemi or the GM LS series, which were designed from the start to include high performance derivatives. Ford 6.2's was designed to replace the 5.4 at the base engine in the Super Duty, and it's certainly been successful in that purpose. However, the advantages it has over the modular architecture in HD applications (valvetrain design, physical size and weight of components) also make it a poor candidate for a performance application.

Roush sold an aftermarket supercharger kit to capitalize on Raptor owners who wanted more power; just because you "can" boost an NA engine doesn't mean you should. That is why so many met their demise through shattered oil pumps and broken connecting rods. Roush, like 99% of other aftermarket companies, validate their mods on a dyno and ship it. A 6.2 with a Roush supercharger wouldn't survive an hour in an OEM durability test, never mind the multiple days in an engine dyno lab required by OE manufacturers. I highly recommend reading the book "Iron Fist, Lead Foot", by former Ford Engineer John Colleti, which provides amazing context and insight into what truly goes into OE engineering.

If you watch “Born in Baja” they lead you to believe the 6.2 was developed for the raptor.

 

[FordTechOne]

If you watch “Born in Baja” they lead you to believe the 6.2 was developed for the raptor.

I don't see how that could be accurate. A 600lb iron block engine is about the last thing you want hanging over the front axle when running the Baja. It was designed for the Super Duty, where it's still used as the base engine. Hence why it wasn't initially offered as an option in the Raptor in 2010 and was discontinued in the F-150 in 2014. Some sources claim it was designed to replace the 6.8 Modular V10, but in the F-450/550/650/750 trucks applications it never did. Those continued to use the 6.8 V10 until the new 7.3 "Godzilla" was released in 2020.

 

[Jakenbake]

I don't see how that could be accurate. A 600lb iron block engine is about the last thing you want hanging over the front axle when running the Baja. It was designed for the Super Duty, where it's still used as the base engine. Hence why it wasn't initially offered as an option in the Raptor in 2010 and was discontinued in the F-150 in 2014. Some sources claim it was designed to replace the 6.8 Modular V10, but in the F-450/550/650/750 trucks applications it never did. Those continued to use the 6.8 V10 until the new 7.3 "Godzilla" was released in 2020.

It is a pretty good movie if you have never seen it, worth the watch.

They seemed pretty specific about it. During a meeting they talk about how the engine in stock form would be enough for the race truck, but they are going to modify one for the race truck.

It has been a while since I saw it, so I don’t remember the exact wording. I may have to watch it again now lol.

I did look up stuff on the internet so you know it is true.

But it appears that the 6.2 was offered in the raptor in 2010.5 and the super duty in 2011. For whatever that is worth.

I really do recommend the movie though.

I have seen it a few times.


Edit****
I made it seem like the engine existed and they modified it for the race truck. The movie made it seem that it was developed for the truck originally.

 

[FordTechOne]

It is a pretty good movie if you have never seen it, worth the watch.

They seemed pretty specific about it. During a meeting they talk about how the engine in stock form would be enough for the race truck, but they are going to modify one for the race truck.

It has been a while since I saw it, so I don’t remember the exact wording. I may have to watch it again now lol.

I did look up stuff on the internet so you know it is true.

But it appears that the 6.2 was offered in the raptor in 2010.5 and the super duty in 2011. For whatever that is worth.

I really do recommend the movie though.

I have seen it a few times.


Edit****
I made it seem like the engine existed and they modified it for the race truck. The movie made it seem that it was developed for the truck originally.

I'll see if I can find it, sounds interesting regardless.

 

[Jakenbake]

I'll see if I can find it, sounds interesting regardless.

It is on YouTube or at least was last time I watched it. Should be about 1 hour and 30 minutes or so. It is pretty cool. Follow Greg foutz and company from start to finish of the 1000.

 

[Augster]

Not sure why people get so hung up on the 6.2.

Because some of us grew up during the dawn of the Muscle car era where big blocks ruled the roost. Yet even today, the old adage is still undenieably true: There is no replacement for displacement!

Peruse any new car catalog from any company, and generally the larger the motor, the more power it offers, with all else being equal (i.e. naturally aspirated to naturally aspirated, turbo to turbo, etc). As for the F150, the biggest motor that was offered thus far by Ford displacement-wise is the 6.2. Hence, some of us get "hung up" on it. Though I would be seriously interested in a supercharged Godzilla 7.3…

1300HP Ford 7.3 Godzilla V8 | Harrop TVS2650 Supercharger Testing

... you have to look at it's origins and capabilities.

I did. Have you?

Wiki Ford Boss engine

Its a work truck/fleet engine; it was never designed nor intended for a high performance application or for forced induction. They used it in Gen 1 Raptors because it was all they had available at the time that exceeded the 5.4 3V. It's the opposite of the Coyote, Hemi or the GM LS series, which were designed from the start to include high performance derivatives. Ford 6.2's was designed to replace the 5.4 at the base engine in the Super Duty, and it's certainly been successful in that purpose.

Are you really, really sure you've got your facts straight?

Jakenbake is closer to the truth, and here's another article from Ford Authority regarding the genesis of the 6.2L BOSS:

The Boss engine was first developed for the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor as a late-availability option. A limited-edition high-output version of the 6.2 L V8 was later introduced for the Raptor as well. In 2017, the engine received new tuning and modified camshafts to bump torque so it could be better suited for use in the Super Duty line of one-ton work trucks.

Regarding the long block itself, with deep skirts and cross-bolted mains (heck, I was just thrilled pink when my original 1970 BOSS 302 came with 4-bolt mains, which weren't even splayed), Livernoise Motorsports offers punched out 6.2's (sporting 6.6 liters), capable of handling 850HP, including blown applications. That's Ford-poured cast iron block and aluminum heads being used here; testament that it truly can handle high performance applications and forced induction.

Roush sold an aftermarket supercharger kit to capitalize on Raptor owners who wanted more power; just because you "can" boost an NA engine doesn't mean you should.

Valid argument there. But as mentioned, the basic 6.2L long block can handle it so it just needs the right tweaks by Ford, which I'm sure they would engineer the right bottom and top end components if they decide to release a supercharged 6.2; the same research and development process as John Colleti described in his book.

That is why so many met their demise through shattered oil pumps and broken connecting rods.

Um, the only real failures I could find are the oil pumps; maybe my Google-Foo sux but I just can't find much anecdotal evidence at all of a high rate of thrown rods for Whipple and Rousch supercharged 6.2's that you are claiming.

Shattering oil pumps could easily be remedied as there are 6.2L oil pump upgrades to solve those weak oil pump gears. Pistons and connecting rods can be upgraded just as easily to handle higher power, which I'm sure Ford would do if they decide a SC 6.2L is in the works.

However, the advantages it has over the modular architecture in HD applications (valvetrain design, physical size and weight of components) also make it a poor candidate for a performance application.

I'm really stumped on what exactly "advantages" you're touting here. The 6-two is an overhead cam motor, just like all flavors of Coyotes. Sure, it's "only" a SOHC, but it spec's significantly more horsepower and torque than it's breatheren DOHC 5-OH. And in comparably equipped trucks differing in only 5.0 or 6.2 engine, the 6.2 wins out in all performance metrics and specifications, even though the 6.2-equipped trucks were 250 pounds heavier. Did I mention something about displacement earlier?

And the "modular" moniker of the Ford Modular Engines have nothing to do with being designed with more performance, but setting up tool and casting stations to quickly and easily change to a different engine platform on the manufacturing line.

Are you researching any of this first, or are you just typing out whatever comes into your brain housing group?

Wiki: Ford Modular engine

Regardless of what engine Ford drops in the R model, I'm just glad it'll be a supercharged V8!

(My apologies to the OP for highjacking this thread...)

 

[FordTechOne]

Because some of us grew up during the dawn of the Muscle car era where big blocks ruled the roost. Yet even today, the old adage is still undenieably true: There is no replacement for displacement!

Sure. Back when a 500ci Cadillac made 190HP. Large displacement does not mean high performance.

I did. Have you?

Wiki Ford Boss engine

Wikipedia? Come on guy. The article claims there was a “limited edition” “Raptor XT”, we all know that’s false. The 6.2 was designed to replace the 5.4 as the Super Duty base engine. That fact is validated by the use of the 6.2 as the base gas engine in the Super Duty and E-Series the over the past 11 years and counting.

Are you really, really sure you've got your facts straight?

Jakenbake is closer to the truth, and here's another article from Ford Authority regarding the genesis of the 6.2L BOSS:

The Boss engine was first developed for the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor as a late-availability option. A limited-edition high-output version of the 6.2 L V8 was later introduced for the Raptor as well. In 2017, the engine received new tuning and modified camshafts to bump torque so it could be better suited for use in the Super Duty line of one-ton work trucks.

That’s completely false. If the engine was designed specifically for the Raptor it wouldn’t have been a 580lb cast iron anvil. It was designed for 3/4 and 1 ton applications. The claim that there was a “limited edition high output version” of the 6.2 invalidates they entire article; that’s false.

Regarding the long block itself, with deep skirts and cross-bolted mains (heck, I was just thrilled pink when my original 1970 BOSS 302 came with 4-bolt mains, which weren't even splayed), Livernoise Motorsports offers punched out 6.2's (sporting 6.6 liters), capable of handling 850HP, including blown applications. That's Ford-poured cast iron block and aluminum heads being used here; testament that it truly can handle high performance applications and forced induction.

Livernois is one of the few that offer anything aftermarket for the 6.2. The 2V heads are like the old 4.6, they don’t flow well. You can slap a blower on anything and have it live for a while, that is not a “testament” to it being a performance engine.

Valid argument there. But as mentioned, the basic 6.2L long block can handle it so it just needs the right tweaks by Ford, which I'm sure they would engineer the right bottom and top end components if they decide to release a supercharged 6.2; the same research and development process as John Colleti described in his book.

Why? There is literally not a single reason for Ford to waste a dollar of Engineering resources trying to turn a 580lb 3/4 ton cast iron block truck engine into a “performance” engine that it was never designed to be. The Coyote was designed for performance applications from the start, hence why it was the architecture in which the 5.2 S/C is based off of. The 6.2 would make way less power, would get even worse fuel economy, and would be over 200lbs heavier. In what world does that make any sense?

Um, the only real failures I could find are the oil pumps; maybe my Google-Foo sux but I just can't find much anecdotal evidence at all of a high rate of thrown rods for Whipple and Rousch supercharged 6.2's that you are claiming.

Shattering oil pumps could easily be remedied as there are 6.2L oil pump upgrades to solve those weak oil pump gears. Pistons and connecting rods can be upgraded just as easily to handle higher power, which I'm sure Ford would do if they decide a SC 6.2L is in the works.

There are plenty of documented failures. That is what happens when you slap a blower on an engine designed to be N/A. Member “MurderedoutSVT” just tossed a rod through the block on his supercharged 6.2.

I'm really stumped on what exactly "advantages" you're touting here. The 6-two is an overhead cam motor, just like all flavors of Coyotes. Sure, it's "only" a SOHC, but it spec's significantly more horsepower and torque than it's breatheren DOHC 5-OH. And in comparably equipped trucks differing in only 5.0 or 6.2 engine, the 6.2 wins out in all performance metrics and specifications, even though the 6.2-equipped trucks were 250 pounds heavier. Did I mention something about displacement earlier?

Car and Driver reviewed both the 2011 F-150 6.2 and 5.0. They had the same ET through the 1/4 mile, with the 5.0 having a 1MPH faster trap speed. And that was the old version of the 5.0, with only 360HP. So despite being down 50HP it was still faster. The current 400HP 5.0 would be no contest. The 6.2 is designed for commercial fleets, not drag racing.

And the "modular" moniker of the Ford Modular Engines have nothing to do with being designed with more performance, but setting up tool and casting stations to quickly and easily change to a different engine platform on the manufacturing line.

You don’t say. “Modular” is simply a reference to the 4.6/5.4/5.8/6.8 engine family; they share the same architecture. Other engines are technically “modular” but generally aren’t referred to as such.

Are you researching any of this first, or are you just typing out whatever comes into your brain housing group?

Wiki: Ford Modular engine

Regardless of what engine Ford drops in the R model, I'm just glad it'll be a supercharged V8!

(My apologies to the OP for highjacking this thread...)

When Wikipedia is your source, you’re clearly grasping for straws.

As posted earlier, all sources are pointing to the 5.2 Predator as the Raptor R engine.

 

[MTF]

You know the 3.5L with the turbos on it, weights just over 500+ lbs.
80 +/- lbs. is not that much of a difference,
but I do concede that 80 lbs. extra over the front axle is not great.

And these SC 6.2L failures are not plenty but a handful that used HP Tuners to bump the power levels beyond a safe reliable Tune.
Now Oil Pump gears is another story, those cheap gears plagued the 5.0's for years when guys started bumping up power, the same is true for the 6.2L
Simple fix, upgrade the gears.