GEN 1 Need some help

[EricM]

Really!!!

I'm sorry but you don't much about superchargers my friend.​

Well, I'm going to again say you are wrong, but what makes you think that?

And the snots were breaking because they were too long.

​

The "snots" on the 03/04 Cobra cranks weren't too long. The issue was it was not a full radius fillet where the snout necked down for the balancer. It was a stress riser and that's where it'd break every time. They went with a full radius on the snout for the later GT500s and eliminated the problem. It was not even a common occurrence, but it was ALWAYS the large 3.4L blowers that caused it.

 

[MTF]

Well, I going to again say you are wrong, but what makes you think that?

​

The "snots" on the 03/04 Cobra cranks weren't too long. The issue was it was not a full radius fillet where the snout necked down for the balancer. It was a stress riser and that's where it'd break every time. They went with a full radius on the snout for the later GT500s and eliminated the problem. It was not even a common occurrence, but it was ALWAYS the large 3.4L blowers that caused it.

What a shit show you turned this into, I'm done with you.
Have a good life!

 

[EricM]

Sure dude whatever.

You don't know jack shit about blowers other than the fact someone installed one on your truck for you.

 

[EricM]

For those who are interested in reality and the physics of positive displacement superchargers - here are some links to the best tech you'll ever find on positive displacement superchargers. It was all written back around 2006, when the 03/04 Cobra community was really active- but all of it still 100% applies to every roots/TS blower sold today.

Analyzing Compressor Maps:
https://www.modularfords.com/thread...r-Tech-and-Twin-Screw-Compressor-Map-Analysis

VE Changes (ie are headers worth it?):
https://www.modularfords.com/thread...ges-with-a-Positive-Displacement-Supercharger

Inlet restrictions are bad (ie get the big MAF):
https://www.modularfords.com/threads/93027-Why-restrictions-in-the-intake-tract-are-bad

Intercooler Efficiency:
https://www.modularfords.com/threads/114798-Compression-efficiency-and-intercooling

and for MTF - here's the crank info.
https://www.modularfords.com/threads/180036-Crank-Tech
https://www.modularfords.com/threads/185676-Crank-Tech-II

 

[MTF]

Random question/thread hijack since there are a couple knowledgeable people here. This is more of a question for fun than anything else. If I opted to switch from a Roush to a Whipple, how much is involved? Obviously the blower itself, different belt, tune, etc. What other bits and pieces (that probably add up to a lot) would be involved? Can't see myself doing it, but who knows.

To be honest I wouldn't bother, there's not much to be gained switching to Whipple at this point.
If you've done all the upgrades possible with the Roush setup you should be right around 520 rwhp.
That's only 40 to 60 rwhp for a stock HO 6.2L lower than the Whipple setup depending on mods.
Unless you have money to burn, that is.
Switching systems would be a complete reinstallation of everything.

It's a shame Roush is not investing on making a intake manifold for the 6.2L Raptor to use the TVS 2650
and since it's a front feed now a new serpentine belt system would have to be designed.
Nor would they be willing to pay to get a Tune for it, just not enough money it.
Then again things change.

Luckily Whipple was able to make improvements with their Gen 4 compressor and still fit under cowl of the Gen 1 Raptor.

My only disappointment is with Ford not continuing with the HO 6.2L.
Basically there will be no more editable Tune files released with more parameters opened up for Tuners to adjust using the SCT file format.
I've been holding my breathe for more editable files for the Gen 1, especially for the 2010 1/2 but we'll see.
I still have to get my ducks in a row and get the Gen 4 compressor upgrade and get together with Whipple's Ford calibrator.
You guys with 2011-2014 Raptors share the same PCM calibration strategy and have more TCM parameters opened up.

 

[John813]

To the OP I went with a Roush on my 13. If I do the same thing with the 14 it will be the whipple.
Nothing wrong with the roush, but the whipple to me is a much efficient/more capable blower.

 

[MTF]

Sure dude whatever.

You don't know jack shit about blowers other than the fact someone installed one on your truck for you.

Ok, so, I want to formally apologize to EricM about my one statement about the compressor rotors.
I completely miss understood what my buddy was trying to explain to me 8 years ago with the rotors free wheeling in a SC.
I told him that I hear something spooling down when I pay attention when shutting down.
He said there were quite a few SC with clutches and/or spragues used in production vehicles like,
Mercedes Benz, Volkswagen, Volvo, Ford's SHO etc.... He implied Whipple could have used one in there but wasn't sure.
I never did ask Whipple directly.
Anyway, in my arrogance, I got rude to a member when he challenged my statement.
I hate making a wrong statement and when I'm wrong I will say so.

Now, just because I have money and can pay the best guy to install the second running production Whippled Raptor.
And wanting the warranty from Whipple!!!
Certainly doesn't mean I do not know anything about the Supercharger.

While the Raptor is my first forced air induction vehicle.
I've had two vehicles one a Ford and one Chevy with small blocks that I built to run at English Town Raceway.
I was doing 11 low 12 with both of them, nothing special.
This was 30 years ago, I didn't have money back then to throw blowers on them.
Watching guys throw ice all over the blower to cool them down and hearing the blowers crack,
made me think that's just to crazy for me.

I've been on here for 10 years and I always try to help anybody with concerns about their SC Raptor.
I have had many conversations with other Supercharged Raptor owners about all three options we have.
I even have Raptor buddies around the world, even shipped stuff for them, visited a few of in my travels.
I always try to research and learn on what's going on with them, do I get it mixed up sometimes, yes.
I have hundreds of emails and phone calls going back and forth with two Ford Calibrators, Whipple, Livernois, SVC, Roush, Procharger, JDM, KHC, Jon Lund, Steeda, 5 Star and a few more I don't want to mention.
Also my meeting with one of the Ford calibrators to use my truck to revise the Tune for the Whipple Stage 1 and then the Stage 2 on a 2010 1/2 was extremely informative.
There are a few things I'm not privy to talk about either, otherwise I wouldn't be told anything anymore.

I think I'm done, I wanted to get this off my chest before Christmas.

So, Merry Christmas to all.

 

[Canuck714]

@EricM , with all of the Mustang blower info you have, there must be some data somewhere on how much inlet air flow is required to run well, before the air filter becomes a restriction.
The reason I ask, is the air filter, and laughable "COLD"Air Intake that both Roush and Whipple use, is not a great form of clean fresh air when in Baja.

I am looking to fab a closed/sealed air box but do not have info as to how much airflow I need. I spoke to a Ford engineer one time while at a desert race, and he claimed that the stock Raptor air box and paper filter can support 500hp.
My current 14 Roush with JDM tune put down 507 at the rear wheels which rough math says is 625hp crank. The rollers I was on gave a higher theoretical crank HP, but I do not know what drivetrain loss calculation they used.

Any theory or math to get me pointed in the right direction? Keep in mind, I would like it to fit under the hood..lol

 

[B E N]

Here's a primer on it:https://www.onallcylinders.com/2013/11/27/match-air-filter-size-engine/

Some of the manufacturers do flow test their filters, figure out what brand you like and make a phone call. My point of view is run the biggest you can fit in the space, if your running Baja dust is going to block at least some portion of the filter so if you are right on the verge of too small it's going to become restrictive in a hurry.

 

[Canuck714]

Here's a primer on it:https://www.onallcylinders.com/2013/11/27/match-air-filter-size-engine/

Some of the manufacturers do flow test their filters, figure out what brand you like and make a phone call. My point of view is run the biggest you can fit in the space, if your running Baja dust is going to block at least some portion of the filter so if you are right on the verge of too small it's going to become restrictive in a hurry.

Interesting read, although no help in my application. That calculation is great for a NA engine using a carb and round filter element.
I need to calculate for a forced induction engine and a closed box with inlet tube to match the larger MAF.

Somebody has done the math somewhere.

UMP told me I need to run 2 of their large filter cans. Unfortunately, there is no place under the hood to fit 2..lol