Dodge to discontinue V8 Hellcat (TRX), What does that mean for Raptor R?

[GordoJay]

Yeah OKAY there, lol

I know, it sounds far out. But FB, Twitter, Instagram, Google, et al are using AI algorithms to manipulate users today. Very effectively. Twenty years of improvement plus good cheap VR? We, as a species, won't know what hit us. Remember "Back to the Future"? How much change there was between 1955 and 1985? Compare that to the amount of change between 1985 and 2015. Factor of ten or so difference. That's what exponential improvement in tech causes. 2015 to 2045? Maybe a hundred times as much change. Enjoy the show. I am.

 

[CoronaRaptor]

I know, it sounds far out. But FB, Twitter, Instagram, Google, et al are using AI algorithms to manipulate users today. Very effectively. Twenty years of improvement plus good cheap VR? We, as a species, won't know what hit us. Remember "Back to the Future"? How much change there was between 1955 and 1985? Compare that to the amount of change between 1985 and 2015. Factor of ten or so difference. That's what exponential improvement in tech causes. 2015 to 2045? Maybe a hundred times as much change. Enjoy the show. I am.

I agree about the manipulation of data by dominate companies, but we as people have the ability to know this and decide if we want to be lead down a path or live life by our own choices. I also agree most people are followers and not aware of their surroundings or able to think for themselves. "If Bob does it, it must be okay", NOPE, not the way I am. Just look at how many people fall for those stupid ads on Fb about, "what's your dogs name or what's your Grandma's name ", I have family that follows and answers that s h i t, bahahahaha. Not my job to help them, at some point you can only help so much.

 

[melvimbe]

If the real plan is to make driving a private vehicle so inconvenient and expensive that people will voluntarily use public transit, it makes perfect sense. Think that's nuts? They've been doing this explicitly in Portland OR for a decade.

Not public transit...ubers. Outside of the urban centers, public transportation makes no sense, but renting a ride does make some sense. If you're a white color worker, chances are that you the tech now exists for you to productively work from home, or at least do that part time. Then consider that delivery has grown to the point where there are few things you need to travel to get. That leaves you with significantly less need to own your own vehicle. So if someone is making payments on a vehicle, paying insurance, buying gas....say that's around $700 a month. How many uber rides can you get each month before you break even? What happens to cost of rides as more people use them regularly, and self driving vehicles, or partially self driving, become more common?

If things really take a hard turn towards EVs, I think fewer people will own vehicles. Not necessarily less vehicles on the road, just more people who's job is transporting people and goods around.

However, people love their vehicles. It's a part of their identity, and not something I think people will be quite so ready to give up, even if it becomes an unnecessary cost. I don't think the elites and urban voters quite recognize that fact in their plans. I think it'll be very hard to predict how that would impact a transition to EVs, but it surely will make it go much less smoothly than our masters want.

 

[Panaraptor]

Although your perspective is a common one, it may be short-sighted. Most EVs today do suffer from long charging times, but I think that is changing.

The newer EVs are coming out with either 800- or 900-volt electrical architecture. For example the Lucid and even the Porsche/Audi. I do not know which architecture the Lightening Rivian is/will be using. With the 800-volt architecture, the Audi etron is able to charge to about 60-80 miles range in ~7 mins using the 350 kW chargers. The Lucid, using the 900-volt architecture, is able to add 100 miles in less than 6 mins.

Furthermore, home charging rates are already pretty good on 40-amp circuits with intelligent chargers. Charging overnight is looking to be a very viable option as well.

I think these numbers will keep improving in a short period of time. So, the EV future may not be as dark as you make it out to be. At the same time, I do agree that EVs will not take over completely in 2-3 years, but by 2030, the projections of new vehicles sales are estimated to be more than 50%.

7 minutes charging time for 60 mile range. And that’s supposed to be good? That doesn’t include the time to get in and out of your car, go to restroom, buy a soda, check air pressure etc. That basically means if you have 4 cars ahead of you, you have to wait almost an hour to begin to charge your vehicle. And who’ll actually only charge for a 60 mile range? Most will want more range and charge for longer. I maintain we are far far away from ditching combustion engines.

Most likely scenario is that EVs will be bought by the same crowd that’s been buying Priuses and everyone else will continue buying conventional cars. Right now we’re going through a period where people think EVs are the future and more than usual are buying….it’ll be short lived. Once enough people experience the difficulties with charging, range anxieties, replacement battery costs, complicated tech failing, etc. associated with more EVs circulating on the streets, they’ll go back to gasoline.

 

[DFS]

How do you dispose of these "green" batteries? What is life of the battery expected to be in warm v cool climates? What is resale (read cost to dispose of) these batteries after use? How easy is it to replace the entire battery system? Oh, and sales projections are through the roof for EV's by 2030, how much of that is driven by the fallacy created by our government subsidies that major manufactures are exploiting to raise the bottom line and make hay while the sun is shining. 2030 will be a moving target, just like the ocean's flooding major cities by early 2000's and the 1980's before that.

And finally, with our current "green" energy infrastructure we can't do anything but subsidize our power grid, with increased demand from charging all of the EV's we will have to lean even more onto coal/nuclear power, so again, what is all of this actually achieving? Limited travel if you ask me, certainly not a reduction of "carbon emissions" or being easier on the environment. All of this lithium has to be mined, and these battery acids/expended batteries are not easy nor cheap to recycle/dispose of.

 

[melvimbe]

Most likely scenario is that EVs will be bought by the same crowd that’s been buying Priuses and everyone else will continue buying conventional cars. Right now we’re going through a period where people think EVs are the future and more than usual are buying….it’ll be short lived. Once enough people experience the difficulties with charging, range anxieties, replacement battery costs, complicated tech failing, etc. associated with more EVs circulating on the streets, they’ll go back to gasoline.

The prius was marketed as a relatively cheap hybrid with ok performance at best. The current crop of EVs are marketed at high performance luxury vehicles. While the two demographics may have similar mentality, I don't think they are really the same buyers. From what I've seen, most EV buyers are someone who want a fun toy to drive around time, for work and such. They own a second vehicle, or spouse does, that they can use for trips. They aren't too concerned about charging and range as they are just leaving it plugged in at home overnight in the garage.

There is also a clear market as work vehicle for deliveries and service where range is not a concern. I think the question remains of whether EVs can break through as your one and only dependable personal vehicle, whether infrastructure can handle a massive increase in EVs, and whether they can retain their used value.

Also worth noting that if EVs due become way more common and reduce the demand for oil, there will still be a huge need for oil and gas in transportation and other industries....but it could cause prices to go higher on a permanent basis. This would result in the same sort of inflation we are seeing now, except on a more permanent basis.

 

[KevoUsmc]

The prius was marketed as a relatively cheap hybrid with ok performance at best. The current crop of EVs are marketed at high performance luxury vehicles. While the two demographics may have similar mentality, I don't think they are really the same buyers. From what I've seen, most EV buyers are someone who want a fun toy to drive around time, for work and such. They own a second vehicle, or spouse does, that they can use for trips. They aren't too concerned about charging and range as they are just leaving it plugged in at home overnight in the garage.

There is also a clear market as work vehicle for deliveries and service where range is not a concern. I think the question remains of whether EVs can break through as your one and only dependable personal vehicle, whether infrastructure can handle a massive increase in EVs, and whether they can retain their used value.

Also worth noting that if EVs due become way more common and reduce the demand for oil, there will still be a huge need for oil and gas in transportation and other industries....but it could cause prices to go higher on a permanent basis. This would result in the same sort of inflation we are seeing now, except on a more permanent basis.

You mentioned the transportation industry and I think it's funny how they also want to implement this for truckers. How long do you think it would take to charge a 44,000 lb flatbed? What's the range going to be like for those? 1 day trips + 1 whole day to charge. Not to mention all the waste of used batteries with an extremely shorter life span from hauling transpo every day. Now we have to build more gigantic parking complexes for them to sit and wait

 

[melvimbe]

You mentioned the transportation industry and I think it's funny how they also want to implement this for truckers. How long do you think it would take to charge a 44,000 lb flatbed? What's the range going to be like for those? 1 day trips + 1 whole day to charge. Not to mention all the waste of used batteries with an extremely shorter life span from hauling transpo every day. Now we have to build more gigantic parking complexes for them to sit and wait

Just guessing, but the trailer will actually hold the batteries, or most of them, in that case. So perhaps if the trip is under 400 miles are so, there would be no need to recharge for a trip. Or perhaps you can switch out batteries more easily. That does resolve all issues by a long shot, but I don't think we're going to see truckers waiting on charges like that.

 

[robo619]

Doesn't mention the TRX, just car models, but wouldn't make sense to produce the powerplant for just a truck, that's why it's iffy in my mind that the Raptor R will ever get built.

With all these strict federal emissions and compliance fines it’s too expensive to maintain. TRX is for sure on its way out but will be resurrected as an EV?

 

[robo619]

Not sure it matters but there are two technicalities that make me think the TRX v8 will stick around.
1) dodge and Ram are two different brands
2) Ram doesn’t recognize the V8 in the TRX as a hellcat in name.

According to Dodge Division Chief Tim Kuniskis, the days of the iron block supercharged 6.2-liter V8 are numbered. Due to strict federal emissions and compliance fines. He also mentioned that the performance is not going away but they will be adding EVs and Hybrids soon to their lineup. So the TRX will be no more after 2023.