Issues if not fixing cam phasers?

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ayoustin

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Bulletproof? As a service technician, that is a comical statement. The Ridgeline is a FWD minivan-based joke that overheats with mild off road use. Toyota can't keep a frame under their cheaply built "trucks", which includes Taco, 4Runner, and Tundra. As far as Tundra, would you like me to elaborate on the AIP failures, cam tower oil leaks, rusted out differential housings, steering gear failures, sticking brake caliper pistons, bed to body contact issues, and 3UR-FE (5.7) valve drop issues? That's just the most common ones, there are plenty more to discuss. It's amazing how these companies can so easily con the average consumer into buying into their BS. I would have loved for someone to walk into my service bay as I have the heads off of a Toyota and exclaim "what are you doing? It's supposed to be bulletproof!"

Here's the frame rust lawsuit info. The newer models have the same issues, nothing changed.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a1857861/toyota-will-settle-truck-frame-rust-suit-suit-34-billion/

I talk about this often with friends and colleagues. The entire automotive OEM world took a huge turn in the late 2000s after the market crashed. It's extremely apparent when you compare new Toyotas to old Toyotas. Pre 2010 it's completely normal to see 400-500k miles out of any of them, anything built afterwards has just about as much service bulletins and failed parts as many domestic made vehicles.

After the market crashed OEMs had a bit of an eye opener and the focus shifted from making something that will run as long as possible requiring as little work as possible, to something that will run with as little issues as possible for the duration of the warranty for as little spend as possible.

Naturally failure rate will go up on any given part, but so do profits which is the main goal of any business. Stuff like this has been proven time and time again too, just look at GM's ignition cylinder recall and the Ford Pinto for example. The manufacturers admitted to knowing about these failure modes but didn't issue recalls earlier because it would have had large impacts to profit, so they chose to circumvent the issue or blatantly ignore it and it bit them where it hurt in the end.

For what it is, there are way worse issues to have than this cam phaser problem. I think in another 5 years from now people will really understand just how brilliant these trucks are.
 

FordTechOne

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I talk about this often with friends and colleagues. The entire automotive OEM world took a huge turn in the late 2000s after the market crashed. It's extremely apparent when you compare new Toyotas to old Toyotas. Pre 2010 it's completely normal to see 400-500k miles out of any of them, anything built afterwards has just about as much service bulletins and failed parts as many domestic made vehicles.

I disagree that it’s “completely normal” to see 400k-500k out of any vehicle unless it’s a domestic diesel truck. If the average person drives 10,000 miles per year, it would take them 40 to 50 years to accumulate that kind of mileage. Trucks like Super Duty are used in commercial applications, and therefore accumulate much higher mileage in a shorter period of time.

As far as service bulletins, those are released by ethical companies. They identify a pattern failure, develop a fix, and take care of the customer. Toyota/Honda will just keep replacing the same part until it’s out of warranty.

After the market crashed OEMs had a bit of an eye opener and the focus shifted from making something that will run as long as possible requiring as little work as possible, to something that will run with as little issues as possible for the duration of the warranty for as little spend as possible.

You have to go back further than that. By the 1980’s Japan’s economy was #2 globally, second only to the US. They were in an economic boon, and they had devalued the yen against the dollar through currency manipulation. That allowed them to build higher quality, more expensive vehicles than the competition yet sell them for the same or lower price. That was how they captured so much market share so quickly and gained a good reputation.

By the mid 90’s the Japanese economy went into a recession, and products going forward reflected that. A great example is a ‘97 Camry compared with the next generation ‘02 model. Everything on the new model was built to a lower standard. If you pull the front struts out of both, you’ll see that the ‘97 was steel mounts with ball bearings. The ‘02 used cheap plastic junk that didn’t even last half as long.

Naturally failure rate will go up on any given part, but so do profits which is the main goal of any business. Stuff like this has been proven time and time again too, just look at GM's ignition cylinder recall and the Ford Pinto for example. The manufacturers admitted to knowing about these failure modes but didn't issue recalls earlier because it would have had large impacts to profit, so they chose to circumvent the issue or blatantly ignore it and it bit them where it hurt in the end.

The ignition cylinder issue was a joke; I owned 3 high mileage vehicle with the claimed “defective” switch and never once did it magically turn itself off with what I would consider to be normal keychain weight. As far the Pinto, that was a vehicle designed 60 years ago. Back them, Toyota was selling their Toyopet, which itself was a death trap but sold in low volumes. Honda knew of the Takata airbag defect since the early 2000s, but didn’t report it to NHTSA. Toyota covered up their unintended acceleration fiasco, and it cost them $1 Billion. Let’s not pretend that the Japanese are ethical, admitting wrongdoing in their culture is considered disgraceful to one’s family.
 

ayoustin

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Well I can count on more than one hand how many friends I've got with 3rd gen 4runners above 300k with nearly zero issues and I can't count on both my hands and feet how many friends with older Hondas over 300k.

My post wasn't meant to compare domestic to foreign manufacturers. It's meant to point out that manufacturers who are often regarded as being "reliable" are no longer holding up to the standard they once set. And I believe this is most apparent comparing modern vehicles to ones made 10-15 years ago. Many manufacturers eliminated servicing components and adopted replacement procedures in lieu of overhaul procedures because it was cheaper to design and manufacture a component to replace it than service it.

As someone who's worked for a handful of automotive and heavy equipment OEMs as an engineer and a designer this is what I've noticed no matter where I'm working. The focus is always to drive costs down and worry about serviceability after the desired cost is achieved. With tech becoming such a focal point on modern vehicles it has sucked a large penny out of development costs for other areas of the vehicle, which is why you see more carryover parts now than every before and more and more vehicles sharing parts or being built on scalable chassis architecture like GM, Volvo and a few others have been doing for a few years now. Everything is all about numbers today.

As far as the ethical decisions, this is across the board for every OEM. I mentioned what I did because those were the first to come to mind. And it's more than just automotive companies, companies all around the world are faced with ethical challenges and that will never change.
 
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