First drive in snow handling report vs Chevy-Jeep-Porsche

[JPW Colorado]

Got about a foot of snow in Estes Park, Co. Took my 19 out for the first time in significant snow.
I still have a lot to learn about my Raptor so others here may want to correct or expand on my comments.

I have three other vehicles to compare against the Raptor in the snow.
(Drifting was conducted in 2 wheel drive with stability control off).

My 2014 Chevy Silverado 4x4 was traded in on the Raptor but I had 5 years of experience with it in the snow. The short of it is that the Silverado was terrible in the snow. Granted it had all season Michelin's on it instead of KO2's so it's ultimate traction was understandably compromised. But the big problem was that the front end plowed until it exhibited snap over steer and a very tough save to keep it from spinning out. A balanced drift in a snow filled parking lot was very difficult to achieve if not possible. KO2's would have helped a lot with overall traction but IMO would not have helped the poor balance and handling problems much.

My 2015 Jeep Rubicon Wrangler (2 door) has new KO2's on it. It's a lighter vehicle by about 2000 lbs and
this probably contributes to the fact that it does not have the ultimate traction for starting or stopping that the Raptor has, though it's still very good. With it's short wheelbase, trying to get a balanced drift is not happening. Lots of care is required to avoid sliding. Going slow is important so that you stay within it's safe handling envelope. Still it's very capable around town and of course has similar ground clearance to the Raptor.

My 2012 Porsche Cayenne Turbo is the best vehicle I have ever owned in the snow and that is with all season tires! It weighs within about 500 lbs of the Raptor but is very balanced and you can steer with the throttle in a slide or around wide corners just like in a sports car. It also stops very well and has surprising traction but falls a little short of the Raptor here given it's tires. I feel very safe in it and it offers a surprising 9.0 inches of ground clearance as well. But now that I have the Raptor and my Jeep with winter tires, the Cayenne is in semi storage. With winter tires installed I would still have to rate it my top winter vehicle for overall starting-stopping and balanced handling.

Like the Cayenne, the Raptor also inspires a lot of confidence in starting and stopping and being predictable in it's handling. It is more reluctant to drift than the Cayenne but is controllable once you get there. It starts and stops a bit quicker with it's KO2's than the Cayenne.

The Raptor is definitely a great winter truck far surpassing any others I have driven. Like the Cayenne I feel safe in it. It's capabilities really amaze me although I worry that I might tend to go too fast in it for conditions as I tend to feel invulnerable in it. No worries about hitting a snow covered curb or pot hole in the Raptor!

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Driving Modes I tried:
-Slippery: tranny races to a very high gear and so is perhaps more useful on ice or hard packed snow.
-Deep snow/sand: This generally worked well although sometimes it kept the rev's too high unless deep snow was really present.
-Normal: In 4A or 4H this worked best for me in 4-6 inches of snow on semi plowed roads.

I did not notice any handling difference between 4A and 4H. Maybe I would have in a longer test drive. Mine only lasted about 35 minutes. From a standing start I thought 4H hooked up faster than 4A.

ANY COMMENTS HERE ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN 4A AND 4H WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

 

[smurfslayer]

4A on the Rap is a part time system that is awesome for a 4x4, but probably not as quick to react as the porsche. you can watch the traction display on the gauges to illustrate graphically how the power transfer is working.

4H locks the front hubs so power is being transmitted to all 4 wheels rather than just the rears and on demand to the front. 4A necessarily allows for front slip and the computer adds in front power if it thinks the slip is excessive. it’s pretty fast to react, but you can get loose in 4A in just rain if you try hard enough.

 

[rtmozingo]

I've got an in-depth article on 4A, 4h, and the driving modes here (note weather corresponds to slippery and Mud/Sand corresponds to Deep Snow). To expand on what smurf is saying, 4A is the only 4x4 mode that is safe to use on hard pack surfaces. Think of it like AWD - that's basically what it is. Essentially, you can focus on AWD and add 4x4, making for a great AWD system but an ok 4x4 system, or you can focus on 4x4 and add AWD, losing a bit of AWD performance.

Hence the 4A designation - it is AWD, but it is using clutch packs on the 4x4 drive system to accomplish this. You get a bit slower response than a dedicated AWD vehicle, as well as torque steer. However, you get a true dedicated 4x4 mode which is much more important on this truck.

What I (and others) typically recommend is to run Normal 4A and Weather/Slipper mode enough to get a feel for when you like them. Weather mode delays shifting and reduces power output for better control. Useful when things get really nasty, but often you can get away with just Normal + 4A. Note that the power distribution and reaction times is different between modes - I think normal is the slowest and most reactionary at sending power forward. Sport and Weather are pretty proactive about it.

 

[Badgertits]

The 4A mode on the Raptor is 10x better than the "4Auto" mode on a GM or Ram (dunno if toyota has it) - the "lag" in reaction time between when slippage is detected & power sent to the front wheels on the Raptor is MUCH less than a GM or Ram, and I had 3xK2 GMC's + a 2007 Chevy. It feels only a tad slower to react vs. the wife's new MDX.

What mode to put it in really depends where you live & weather conditions - out west where snow is fluffier/lighter & you get less heavy wet snow/slush/hard packed snow/black ice etc. the KO2's I think perform adequately well for an AT tire. In the northeast or someplace like MI or MN my feeling is they're not so great for winter duty b/c once the snow gets packed down or you're dealing w/ a mix of winter conditions in place of just "snow" I think the fact that they're very wide, not a soft winter rubber compound, lack true siping, & tend to get packed w/ snow in the grooves all work against them. I only ran my Raptor briefly in last winter in MA, but this year I am running dedicated set of Nokian Hakka LT2 on base 17" factory wheels. I can't wait to get some snow to try this setup out.

I actually prefer driving in Sport mode then switch to 4A in anything slick or heavy rain, hard packed snow I'll use the "weather" mode sometimes but honestly I prefer sport mode for the quicker reaction of the tranny & throttle. If its a true winter event w/ heavy snowfall & plows unable to keep up - which is usually the case - I run it in true 4HI - I really think its better for the wear parts vs. the constant "on/off" action of 4A in really bad conditions - in fact the truck will make that decision for you in the event you're frying the clutch packs......so as a general rule I use 4HI if the roads are pretty much covered w/ snow/sleet/ice/slush. If its 2-3 days after and/or you've had a break in weather w/ some melting & roads are a combo of snow/ice & dry patches I use 4A.

The width of the tires is a detractor when it comes to stopping/turning.

 

[goblues38]

I actually prefer driving in Sport mode then switch to 4A in anything slick or heavy rain, hard packed snow I'll use the "weather" mode sometimes but honestly I prefer sport mode for the quicker reaction of the tranny & throttle..

The problem with "sport mode" when on slippery surfaces, whether you are in 2wd or 4a, is you are using a lot more engine braking. Engeni braking on low traction surfaces is not good for control at all. Similar to just locking up the brakes.

You should be in the highest gear possible to the tires roll free, and use only your brakes as needed. keep the contact patch moving at all times.

just my .02¢

 

[Badgertits]

The problem with "sport mode" when on slippery surfaces, whether you are in 2wd or 4a, is you are using a lot more engine braking. Engeni braking on low traction surfaces is not good for control at all. Similar to just locking up the brakes.

You should be in the highest gear possible to the tires roll free, and use only your brakes as needed. keep the contact patch moving at all times.

just my .02¢

Different story when you're running studded snows my friend loL! Will drift that Rap like a subie sti on a snow day


I haven't run the Rap w/ the snows yet like I said, but my experience in rain/slick Sport mode + 4A I like it - & also prefer normal + 4a vs. "weather" 4A in rain/slick - but in actual winter conditions sometimes used "weather" when on the KO2s, keep in mind when I'm running Sport + 4A & driving aggressively in slick/wet conditions I'll also take TC off - not sure but that may change some of the attributes you're mentioning. I'm thinking w/ the snows this year I'll continue preferring Sport + 4A TC off, then if gets worse TC on, gets even worse switch to weather mode, & worse than that 4HI lol

 

[TurboTJ]

you can watch the traction display on the gauges to illustrate graphically how the power transfer is working.

i didn’t know this was an option. How do I see when power is going to the front axle?

I've got an in-depth article on 4A, 4h, and the driving modes here (note weather corresponds to slippery and Mud/Sand corresponds to Deep Snow). To expand on what smurf is saying, 4A is the only 4x4 mode that is safe to use on hard pack surfaces. Think of it like AWD - that's basically what it is. Essentially, you can focus on AWD and add 4x4, making for a great AWD system but an ok 4x4 system, or you can focus on 4x4 and add AWD, losing a bit of AWD performance.

Hence the 4A designation - it is AWD, but it is using clutch packs on the 4x4 drive system to accomplish this. You get a bit slower response than a dedicated AWD vehicle, as well as torque steer. However, you get a true dedicated 4x4 mode which is much more important on this truck.

It’s “like” AWD in the sense that you can run both on non slick conditions but that’s where the similarities end. There are two modes for sending power to the ground, RWD and 4WD. It was just designed to swap between those modes much faster and with a front/rear speed differential that most trucks don’t have. The clutches allow you to enter a fixed 4WD mode with the front and rear axles going a different speed. Really nice design!

AWD cars always have both axles engages with a center differential dictating where power goes. They do not require an active system that detects slipping between front and rear wheels.

Different story when you're running studded snows my friend loL! Will drift that Rap like a subie sti on a snow dayl

I think the Raptors actually drift really well and don’t understeer like the STI’s. No need to compare them to some high schooler’s Subaru.

 

[JPW Colorado]

Great information to have guys. Obviously different driving conditions and styles will come in to play in deciding what mode to be in. Thanks to everybody who replied.

 

[DANACO]

Keep in mind that in 4A mode there is a nominal amount of power going to the front even when no slipping is detected at the rear, this is why you feel the added resistance to the steering in that mode with raptors that have the Torsen front differential. So when the computer senses a larger speed differential between the front and rear it adds more torque to the front to balance the two ends and not just switching it on to the the front, its already there when in 4A.

 

[TurboTJ]

Keep in mind that in 4A mode there is a nominal amount of power going to the front even when no slipping is detected at the rear, this is why you feel the added resistance to the steering in that mode with raptors that have the Torsen front differential. So when the computer senses a larger speed differential between the front and rear it adds more torque to the front to balance the two ends and not just switching it on to the the front, its already there when in 4A.

You sure about that? Typically letting things be partially engaged with clutches leads to overheating clutches. Just curious, where did you hear this?

I think the resistance is due to the front hubs being locked, not the transfer case being partially engaged. This means that the front axles, differential and driveshaft are engaged though no power is supplied to the driveshaft.