Back to the drawing board?

[K223]

I think if it was 'Wow', they'd be out there to build excitement. Putting them out when they're basically the same would reduce excitement. If I were betting, I'd take the modest bump bet vs the surprise.

Yeah probably a modest bump. Especially if the R does follow. The 3.5 is damn good and very good for where it sits. Besides one other truck it’s still the best all around performer and Gen 3 will better it. People just hope for more always. Sometimes you can’t pull it out of thin air without it affecting other variables that a vehicle is known for.

I’m done thinking for a bit LOL

 

[CoronaRaptor]

Its not just Ford Raptors, it's every manufacturer out there (my opinion), I just got a text from a Jeep Dealer in town here, wants to give me $20-25k for my '14 jk because they have no inventory. They can't sell and make money if they don't have vehicles. Ford wants to produce Raptors, yes it takes time to retool, etc, but this is a result of chip shortage and covid as previously mentioned. You can go buy a dodge and then trade it in on a real truck when the Raptor comes back out, if you can't wait, lol.

 

[GordoJay]

The 3.5 is damn good and very good for where it sits. Besides one other truck it’s still the best all around performer...

What other truck is better all around?

 

[melvimbe]

I guarantee that there are hard conversations going on at high levels within Ford. The TRX was so well-received that all margin for error in the Gen3 Raptor is gone.

I don't think the TRX is really all that well received. There are many that are impressed, for sure, but many who don't like several aspects of it, in comparison the Raptor. The TRX production has had some issues with bad QA, and really hasn't proven itself offroad yet. IMO, the jury is still out on the TRX. A year from now, I would not be surprised, if it's not looked at as a competitor much at all, and we see TRX on the used market for significantly lower that purchased.

Or not, don't know for sure. Either way, I don't think Ford will have much trouble with Raptor sales. I really think the battle is more about overall brand reputation and sales of all trucks in general, as people tend to judge an entire lineup by the halo truck at the top.

 

[melvimbe]

The introduction of the Bronco is really non-existent in terms of the Raptor. Completely different factory. Each factory has suppliers and lead times are already scheduled at least 6 months in advance for parts provided for that vehicle and model year. Bids for the Raptor parts supplier (Tier Partners) were awarded last summer, during covid. Again chips are a different story, but not stopping production.

Even so, Ford probably considers getting the Bronco out there a higher priority than the Raptor. If people don't start seeing Broncos on the road in the next few months, and seeing reservations delivered, they may turn to Jeep or elsewhere. The Raptor is well established and isn't going anywhere, even with the TRX in the market.

I get that they are separate productions, different factories, and parts. However, where there are shared parts and suppliers, I would bet Ford is willing to delay Raptor production if it means getting Broncos out sooner.

 

[smurfslayer]

It seems to me like Ford planned a late 21 release as MY2022 and then some marketing genius panicked when the TRX actually shipped and got good reviews. So they rushed out an 'intro' to keep people waiting instead of jumping ship

I also believe the much anticipated and long since confirmed TRX launch, pushed the gen3 release ahead an entire model year, and the intro another 6 months minimum. Look at the Gen 2 for comparison, the intro was much later, and the delivery of press models didn’t occur until November.

(covid) and during the introduction of a brand new model Bronco, it's got to be near impossible.

Yeah, the Raptor is the overlooked middle child of Ford Performance. The brash, rude, uncouth, kid you dread taking out in public and the Bronco is the brand new, shiny newborn they want everyone to fawn over.

The intro was lame. The advertising program to build excitement is nonexistent. That order banks aren't open now for mid summer delivery makes it look like they're going to trickle a few out to the dealers to 'make shipments', but real availability will be late 2021.

The intro was a little lackluster, even compared to the Gen2 intro. I think the fact that they were out there so early with the release and intro means they’re furiously trying to finish up QA, which means probably lower power output than we want because they won’t be able to validate high output with sufficient QA. I expect subsequent year eco boost Raps to have more power.

The introduction of the Bronco is really non-existent in terms of the Raptor.

I think this is so wrong. The Bronc is going to eat into Raptor sales, while there may be die hards that hold on, a fully optioned Bronc is going to do a lot of what the Rap can and is a streetable SUV with off road cred. Lots of wives will be convinced they can live with the Bronc who couldn’t quite ok the Rap. Ford sunk quite a bit of effort into re-introducing the Raptor and have poured blood, sweat and tears into accessories. There are literally 20x more accessories for the Bronco that we know about NOW, than there have been for the Raptor since introduction.

I don't think the TRX is really all that well received.

Regardless of how well received it has been, these are 100% potential Raptor sales, and it’s hurting Ford’s bottom line.

Even so, Ford probably considers getting the Bronco out there a higher priority than the Raptor.

I think Ford considers the Bronco the Raptor’s eventual replacement. The support and infrastructure put around the Bronco dwarfs the Raptor. If the Raptor suffers post gen3 release due to the TRX and the Bronco is successful, Ford is going to have the uncomfortable discussion about which ‘super off road capable vehicle to continue and which to drop the axe on’. I do hope that’s wrong, I like the Raptor way more. If the Bronco is successful, there is a very distinct possibility there won’t be a gen4 Raptor.

 

[Chainsaw]

I don't think the TRX is really all that well received. There are many that are impressed, for sure, but many who don't like several aspects of it, in comparison the Raptor. The TRX production has had some issues with bad QA, and really hasn't proven itself offroad yet. IMO, the jury is still out on the TRX. A year from now, I would not be surprised, if it's not looked at as a competitor much at all, and we see TRX on the used market for significantly lower that purchased.

Or not, don't know for sure. Either way, I don't think Ford will have much trouble with Raptor sales. I really think the battle is more about overall brand reputation and sales of all trucks in general, as people tend to judge an entire lineup by the halo truck at the top.

How was it not well-received? Every review I read was 10/10 and most quite literally call it the greatest truck ever produced and clearly superior to the (previous Gen) Raptors.

People are falling over themselves to pay $10-$20k+ ADMs. That is definitely "well-received".

 

[melvimbe]

How was it not well-received?

I explained my thoughts on that right after I made the statement. Not sure why you're asking.

 

[melvimbe]

I think Ford considers the Bronco the Raptor’s eventual replacement. The support and infrastructure put around the Bronco dwarfs the Raptor. If the Raptor suffers post gen3 release due to the TRX and the Bronco is successful, Ford is going to have the uncomfortable discussion about which ‘super off road capable vehicle to continue and which to drop the axe on’. I do hope that’s wrong, I like the Raptor way more. If the Bronco is successful, there is a very distinct possibility there won’t be a gen4 Raptor.

Why not both? While the offroad SUV market is ramping up, it's not like the offroad truck market is falling off. Ford surely wants to do well in both. What's falling off is the car market, and that's where Ford has significantly dropped their attention.

I'll put it this way, if the offroad truck market is dwindling, then Ram wouldn't have made the TRX, and we wouldn't see electric vehicles targeting the offroad truck market. Ford would look rather weak just to give up on a profitable market just when they start getting a little competition. I suppose you could make the argument that Tremor is the Raptor replacement, but I really doubt that as they fit slightly different needs.

 

[NHDude4]

I drive a lot.. like 55k in 2 years on my 19 so I'm eager to buy a new truck. With that said, I dont think I've ever seen a manufacturer go so radio silent after a reveal. Does anyone else think they saw/read the reactions and thought "maybe we need to rethink this" granted the body is locked in but the output may not be.

I've just been waiting for numbers for the power train forever and still nothing... seems poorly executed.

The numbers are all but known. Same output. Maybe a tiny bump in TQ and definitely hitting peak TQ at lower RPM. If you think Ford is rethinking the output you have no idea how the auto industry works. They have no need to stop and rethink adding more power. It'll sell fine with the same output. The reason everything is quiet is because there's a microchip shortage and new vehicle production is at like 20% of normal levels. The Raptor is by no means Ford's first priority so it's going to be delayed more than likely. The Bronco already has been and that's actually a widely anticipated volume model.

I think people on here can get caught up with thinking they're the center of the automotive universe. Raptor is one niche product for Ford and they have bigger fish to fry when the whole industry is in chaos.