How do bypass shocks in the rear give you more travel?

[454 Motorsports]

Within a certain window yes..... Electronic suspension adjusting can only take you so far...There will still be a need for someone to place the right valve and shim stack combination....

Totally agree. The Shock Therapy guys are swapping the coils, re-valving the shocks, and then installing these systems. And yes, with trucks, having a shock tuner getting you dialed in first would be the way to go. The last truck I had KDM tune the shocks, out in Barstow, was a huge improvement.

 

[CR Gittere]

I got a deal on the new 3.0 live valves so I am waiting to find someone to put them on when I get back to the west coast next month

 

[John Rathjen]

OK a little more info after chatting with the ORR guys.

The solenoids on our LV shocks, and the new Fox Factory Race LV's coming out, control compression dampening only. The only way to control rebound on the FRLV shocks is gonna be with the external 3-position dummy selector - at least I'm guessing it will affect rebound - need to confirm that with Fox. So ORR's interface can therefore only control compression dampening on Raptor LV shocks.

Their interface CAN control two solenoids per shock however, so with a regular 3.0 coilover for example, their system (with their special dual solenoids) could electronically/remotely control both compression AND rebound dampening. Sounds pretty sweet. Obviously you would have to use a LV eliminator module so the lack of LV shocks would not throw you into limp mode.

I forgot to clarify if their new setup would work on EBP shocks - but I'm thinking not. I'll reconnect with them to confirm this though.

 

[CR Gittere]

I think there is a huge misconception in this thread about what is live valve and what is NOT live valve....

Lets pretend you are driving your truck and you see a bump in the road up ahead....and you are turning left and you are going to hit that bump with your right front tire..

Live valve uses sensors such as wheel speed, brake pressure, steering angle, bank angle, etc. to make adjustments to your suspension, before your suspension needs to react to the bump. If you are turning left it will add more compression to your right front tire to help absorb the extra hit of that bump because of the extra load applied to the right front corner from turning...

Now if you were going the other way and you hit that same bump with your right front tire while turning right the live valve would lessen the compression on the right front tire because the weight of the vehicle would be on the left front, you would need less compression because of the lighter load of turning right.

The UTV system mentioned earlier in this thread just makes the shocks softer or stiffer based on your choice...

The system that ORR has developed, 1) allows you to delete the live valve 2) add another shock and drop their valving system on that shock and use all the same sensors in the truck to control the valving....

They say you can "tune" how the live valve works with their new ECU, that will be interesting to see, because having run data system on race bikes that is opening up a can of worms and the the ford modules that control the suspension also controls the brake pressure and several other things as well...
I think what they are saying on their website is you can make the shocks stiffer or softer based on a setting in the truck, and they are deleting the true live valve operation..

 

[CR Gittere]

Ok so I read that again on the ORR site and it looks like they are using a GYRO in the middle of the vehicle to determine what should happen with compression and rebound like in the example I use above......I would not consider this live valve at all... It simply uses a gyro to determine if you need more or less compression while turning... Live valving takes WAYYYYY more factors into adding compression or rebound

 

[John Rathjen]

CR where did u see the gyro thing? Yea that doesn’t sound near as good.
From chatting with ORR it sure sounded like their system would interface with the stock Raptor electronics. Although, again, since or LV shocks can only change compression dampening due to using one solenoid per shock, the tuning will obviously be limited.

now on their system that you can adapt to other, non-LV shocks, I was ASSUMING that it also interfaces with our stock electronics. I may be misunderstanding that. If it’s a stand alone setup using a gyroscope, it doesn’t sound near as good.

maybe the best setup would be to keep a LV shock in the stock location to retain the benefits like you mentioned above, but run an additional shock - like a 3.5 EBP - next to it that you could just manually dial in the dampening

 

[CR Gittere]

John,
The webpage you sent me leads me to believe they are using the inputs from all over the truck, you might be right, however when you click watch this video you get this text to the right

"Testing of the patent-pending Off-Road Research Universal Electronic Reservoir (eRESi) on the #906 Northshore Raceworks Ultra4 4400 truck in Johnson Valley in early Dec 2019. One of the unique benefits of the system is the tunable roll control, which aids in keeping the vehicle flatter in corners. The system has an onboard Inertial Measurement Unit (IMU) with provides accelerometer and Yaw, Pitch, and Roll info and makes adjustments accordingly every 2ms. On a softly sprung Ultra4 or Trophy Truck vehicle, this is an important feature... Stability when you need it, float when you don't!"

So this leads me to believe they only want to interface with the gyro..on the truck or added their own gyro... Cracking into a suspension control unit that has multiple sensors, and giving a user an interface to tune that is incredibly complicated and expensive..

Their stand alone system for the ultra car seems like they are only using a gyro to control compression and rebound, I have not talked to them to confirm this but if I was marketing a system like this and used multiple sensors like I did in Superbike racing, I would be singing that to the moon...

 

[John Rathjen]

Ah yea I didn't see that video. I wish they had a phone number listed. Would like to follow up on all these questions, but it's hard to do that just with Messenger

 

[ryan505]

hell of a good thread for a newbie like me. thank you for all of this very useful information and opinion on build choices!

 

[Turbogoat324]

This thread was a great read!