Financing a Raptor

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formuladriver01

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I'll be financing my Raptor when it comes time to order. I will be ordering halfway through my deployment. I currently have no bills and plan to save up as much money as possible on my 10 month deployment and plan to use that as a down payment and then finance the rest. I'm hoping for 5yrs at or around 1-2%
 
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Marcs

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I've been in the financial services industry for over 15 years. This thread is a perfect example of how much financial ignorance is out there.

First off, everybody's situation is different. Whether to finance and how much is often a function of cash flow, debt/income, job security, risk aversion, creditworthiness, rate of credit and many, many other factors.
Making a blanket statement using credit or not using credit is simply absurd!


Not financing a depreciating asset? Really? Nothing in our economy would ever get done if companies and consumers didn't finance depreciating assets. Nearly all company machines, buildings, etc are depreciating. As we've found out the past decade even homes and condos can be depreciating assets.

I will say this:
Generally speaking---Anytime you add leverage (debt), you add risk. If you reduce/eliminate leverage (debt), you reduce risk.

This is not true 100% of the time......but generally speaking it holds true.

By lumping together a business asset and personal asset in one and the same argument you display an obvious lack of understanding of how business and finance works. Both have a completely different purpose and expectation during their lifecycle.

I will agree with you that everyone's situation is different and what might apply to one might not apply to the other. However, if nothing at all, the last 10 years have proven that the average American is stupid about money. Concepts such as debt, leverage, risk, cost of capital etc. are foreign to most individuals.

The problem goes deeper though. The idea of saving for an expensive item does largely not exist anymore. Folks have to have the item today, whether we are talking about cars, vacations or whatever, so they borrow or charge the item and evaluate their ability to afford it based on the monthly payment that comes with it. The gratification has to immediate. In many cases this leads to problems later on. Savings are non existent and debt is rampant.

Yes, I made a blanket statement, a statement that holds in most personal cases. IMO when it comes to personal depreciating assets, if you can write a check for it comfortably do so rather than take on debt. If you can't, at least save for a very sizable downpayment instead of trying to fit in a $800-900 monthly payment ( even if you can comfortably afford it today). 72 months is quite the period to forecast for the average person.

Again, business assets and the use of business capital are a completely different story. I am more than willing to explain that to you on a later date.
 
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Reptar

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On another note, anybody refinancing with the lower rates after owning their truck a year or more? Wasn't sure how often that's done.
 

ejlmoney

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By lumping together a business asset and personal asset in one and the same argument you display an obvious lack of understanding of how business and finance works. Both have a completely different purpose and expectation during their lifecycle.

I will agree with you that everyone's situation is different and what might apply to one might not apply to the other. However, if nothing at all, the last 10 years have proven that the average American is stupid about money. Concepts such as debt, leverage, risk, cost of capital etc. are foreign to most individuals.

The problem goes deeper though. The idea of saving for an expensive item does largely not exist anymore. Folks have to have the item today, whether we are talking about cars, vacations or whatever, so they borrow or charge the item and evaluate their ability to afford it based on the monthly payment that comes with it. The gratification has to immediate. In many cases this leads to problems later on. Savings are non existent and debt is rampant.

Yes, I made a blanket statement, a statement that holds in most personal cases. IMO when it comes to personal depreciating assets, if you can write a check for it comfortably do so rather than take on debt. If you can't, at least save for a very sizable downpayment instead of trying to fit in a $800-900 monthly payment ( even if you can comfortably afford it today). 72 months is quite the period to forecast for the average person.

Again, business assets and the use of business capital are a completely different story. I am more than willing to explain that to you on a later date.

LOL.
I’ll let you know that I am a Certified Financial Planner (CFP), Chartered Financial Consultant (ChFC) and Certified Investment Management Analyst (CIMA). I have had my practice for over 15 years. I clearly understand that businesses are afforded additional tax benefits to depreciating assets not often afforded to personal assets. However, both businesses and individuals should be making the best decision based on the economics and best utility of the purchase within their risk tolerance. Within that context, it may be that using leverage is the best decision. It may be that paying cash is the best decision.

You seem to be letting your personal view that vehicles should not be financed (no matter what) overrule the economics and risk tolerance of each person’s situation. My point is that each individual needs to evaluate based upon their own situation.

Here’s a case to illustrate my point:
Casey, age 37, has a net monthly income after all fixed expenses (mortgages, taxes, utilities, etc) of $5,000. He has stable employment. He is on track for retirement savings, college savings for his children, and has built a $100,000 taxable investment account for discretionary expenses. Expected rate of return on that investment account for the next 5 years is 7% annually.
Casey can finance a $50,000 vehicle for 2% over 60 months. He can easily cash flow the monthly payment.

Question:
Should Casey finance the vehicle or pull the $50,000 from his investment account and pay cash?

Answer:
I don’t know.

First the economics:
Certainly, the economics make sense for him to finance the purchase. In theory, he should make an additional $11,000+ in his investment account over the next five years by using the loan. He can easily cash flow the monthly payment. The economic answer is a resounding “yes”

Second, risk tolerance:
By using the loan, Casey is subjecting himself to greater risk. Risk that the investment account won’t perform at 7%. Risk that he could lose his income. Risk that he won’t like the vehicle and want to sell it early. Etc.
Assuming an affirmative answer on the economic side, Casey must decide for himself if the risk of a loan is acceptable to him.

Note: If the economics do not make sense, risk tolerance doesn’t matter. Casey shouldn’t proceed. For instance if the loan rate was at 9%, Casey should pay cash.


I do agree that many Americans have not done enough for retirement savings and saving altogether. IMO, it is a product of lack of financial education and personal sacrifice.

But again, it’s loopy to suggest everyone should pay cash because we all have different economic and risk tolerance situations.
 

SrBug

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Yeah go pay cash for your Raptor,
then get minimum cover Liability insurance so you can save even more money,
then rollover and total your truck in a simple arroyo ,
What you end up with?
no debt & no truck but 56k out of your pocket.
LoL!!!!
That's saving money??? LoL!!!

if a loan is 72 months doesn't mean you have to pay it in 72 months.
There's still Plenty of Options Within ,
Early Pay Off,
Trade In For a newer Raptor,
etc.etc.
 

Marcs

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LOL.
I’ll let you know that I am a Certified Financial Planner (CFP), Chartered Financial Consultant (ChFC) and Certified Investment Management Analyst (CIMA). I have had my practice for over 15 years. I clearly understand that businesses are afforded additional tax benefits to depreciating assets not often afforded to personal assets. However, both businesses and individuals should be making the best decision based on the economics and best utility of the purchase within their risk tolerance. Within that context, it may be that using leverage is the best decision. It may be that paying cash is the best decision.

You seem to be letting your personal view that vehicles should not be financed (no matter what) overrule the economics and risk tolerance of each person’s situation. My point is that each individual needs to evaluate based upon their own situation.

Here’s a case to illustrate my point:
Casey, age 37, has a net monthly income after all fixed expenses (mortgages, taxes, utilities, etc) of $5,000. He has stable employment. He is on track for retirement savings, college savings for his children, and has built a $100,000 taxable investment account for discretionary expenses. Expected rate of return on that investment account for the next 5 years is 7% annually.
Casey can finance a $50,000 vehicle for 2% over 60 months. He can easily cash flow the monthly payment.

Question:
Should Casey finance the vehicle or pull the $50,000 from his investment account and pay cash?

Answer:
I don’t know.

First the economics:
Certainly, the economics make sense for him to finance the purchase. In theory, he should make an additional $11,000+ in his investment account over the next five years by using the loan. He can easily cash flow the monthly payment. The economic answer is a resounding “yes”

Second, risk tolerance:
By using the loan, Casey is subjecting himself to greater risk. Risk that the investment account won’t perform at 7%. Risk that he could lose his income. Risk that he won’t like the vehicle and want to sell it early. Etc.
Assuming an affirmative answer on the economic side, Casey must decide for himself if the risk of a loan is acceptable to him.

Note: If the economics do not make sense, risk tolerance doesn’t matter. Casey shouldn’t proceed. For instance if the loan rate was at 9%, Casey should pay cash.


I do agree that many Americans have not done enough for retirement savings and saving altogether. IMO, it is a product of lack of financial education and personal sacrifice.

But again, it’s loopy to suggest everyone should pay cash because we all have different economic and risk tolerance situations.

Ah yes, somebody who feels the need to validate their argument by boasting about their experience and meaningless designations. Before you say anything, I held 2 out 3 of those same credentials until my retirement from the industry (just saying, they are alphabet soup, nothing more, just mho). (spend my entire career so far with 2 of the largest wirehouses).

Now you are perfectly correct on the economics and financial implications in your example. Casey has a healthy income, plenty of discretionary funds, decent savings and a healthy start on his retirement savings. The decision in his case might be more about comfort and risk tolerance than anything else. I agree with you.

However, Casey is far from your average American. I am willing to say even that Casey might be far from the typical raptor owner. Like I stated previously, my blanket statement counted for the average American, those with more limited means, less discretionary room, less savings and probably not on track for retirement (just pretty much covered the majority of folks in this country). heck, a good chunk of the population can't even follow the math in your example.

Casey has plenty of choices when times get tough. He can pay of loan, supplement his income from savings ect. Plenty of folks do not have that ability, they are stretched thin to say the least, and evaluated their purchase based on the monthly payment alone and whether they could afford said payment today. And therefor probably overbought for their budget to begin with. For the average American the rule thumb should probably be if I have to finance it, I can not afford it.......especially when a cheaper alternative would do. Again average.

Especially in today's market environment and economic climate my appetite for risk is low. Risk tolerance for most if not all of my clients (largely hnw and endowments) was low. Expectations for 7%+ market returns going forward are probably lofty, especially on a risk adjusted basis. So yes I, and many others, agree that maintaining a small financial footprint, limited debt and limited cash flow needs to maintain your desired lifestyle, healthy reserves and aggressive retirement savings is the way to go. The last thing I would want for anyone I know is to be a slave for their toys. .

So maybe I should have been clearer in my original statement that I am referring to the average American, but I am standing by my rule of thumb.

Srbug, nobody is talking about limited insurance coverage what so ever. I don't know where that crap came from.
 
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Fred

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Does anyone need a Raptor for work?...most would say no, so a Raptor, like other toys is paid out of "discretionary monies"...so if after everything else you got an extra $1k to $1.2k laying around then go for it...

Again...it is people's money, or lack there of, so they can spend it anyway they want...

I get that folks need hobbies, toys, etc...but one must realize the cost of owing a toy like our Raptors...I have stated earlier, between the cost of the truck along with and gas, insurance etc...one needs roughly $2k in before tax dollars per month two enjoy there toy...now that might be high, but not buy much...so that is $24k a year for our trucks...

As long as folks know that it is not just the interest factor they are paying is fine...it is everything else that adds up...

So if we take our examples return of 7%. What would $24k a year invested @ 7% grow to after 5 years, immaterial of taxes....being to lazy to run the numbers I would ballpark around $160 to $200k...not bad...

So, we can all enjoy our trucks, just we need to know the true cost of ownership...

I stick buy my statement as well...
-the reason vehicles, and most things for that matter is that we as consumers look not at the cost but can we afford that Monthly payment over a number of years... When I see vehicle financing rates moving from from 36 months to 48 months to 60 and now 72... Just makes me think just keep extending the term to make the math work...

Fred
 

SrBug

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So is not funny?
You can't feel the sarcasm in my writing.......?


I'm sorry if offended anyone.......... But i have the right to know ...
Who thought it was funny...............ok not really.
Seriously I wouldn't be here if this was not funny.........,ok ok I would
But i would not post...... Ok ok I can't lie anymore .
I'm guilty as charged.......... Please don't crucify me because my name is ...
Ok
No Comment.......


.. But yeah that's my real name so don't ........please?

Thank You!
 
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