Gen2 Live Valve Full Stiffness Cause?

[downforce137]

my guess is the whole needle is stuck is the closed position, whether its grit, or the needles seat getting worn out and galled up.. something is wrong.

 

[TravisHTX]

I don’t think the Ar15 analogy works. Although very efficient in its application, it’s an open and overtly dirty operating system, where the shock is a closed system.

Also, props to you for humor for mentioning AR15 and reliable in the same sentence

A definite LOL.

Hey! I never said ARs are reliable! Just comparing a tight tolerance to a mil spec version!

Fair point on the closed system, I am just ignorant enough on the subject that I don’t know all the causes of a worn shock. To the uneducated, it would seem like if the seals deteriorate, that could potentially cause debris to be floating in the oil.

 

[smurfslayer]

Hey! I never said ARs are reliable! Just comparing a tight tolerance to a mil spec version!

Fair point on the closed system, I am just ignorant enough on the subject that I don’t know all the causes of a worn shock. To the uneducated, it would seem like if the seals deteriorate, that could potentially cause debris to be floating in the oil.

Yeah, I know enough about this topic to know I don’t know enough.
Or something like that.

Maybe a closer analogy would be fouled carbs?
Anyway, I’d be curious to hear the final diagnosis on this one.

 

[TravisHTX]

Yeah, I know enough about this topic to know I don’t know enough.
Or something like that.

Maybe a closer analogy would be fouled carbs?
Anyway, I’d be curious to hear the final diagnosis on this one.

That may be more accurate, but I think we understand the gist of it. But yea, I grew up on boats, not cars, so I am out of my element compared to many of you here.


Anyways, both Kyle@ApolloOptics, and Rick at FMS had competitive pricing on Eclik and OEM rebuild. It was hard since both have been great and provided valuable feedback, but I had to pick one. Sorry Rick!! I went with Kyle@ApolloOptics just because I have worked with them before, and they are geographically closer to me. If any of you guys are looking at Eclik as an option, I don’t think you could beat working with either of these guys.

Unfortunately since I am doing both bypassing the VDM at the same time, and a shock rebuild, it will be harder to tell what was the root cause. If I have the time, I will see if I can run the rebuilt shocks before installing the Eclik. But since they are revalving them, I am not sure how that will change the ride vs OEM.

I will certainly update this thread.

 

[Kyle@Apollo-Optics]

That may be more accurate, but I think we understand the gist of it. But yea, I grew up on boats, not cars, so I am out of my element compared to many of you here.


Anyways, both Kyle@ApolloOptics, and Rick at FMS had competitive pricing on Eclik and OEM rebuild. It was hard since both have been great and provided valuable feedback, but I had to pick one. Sorry Rick!! I went with Kyle@ApolloOptics just because I have worked with them before, and they are geographically closer to me. If any of you guys are looking at Eclik as an option, I don’t think you could beat working with either of these guys.

Unfortunately since I am doing both bypassing the VDM at the same time, and a shock rebuild, it will be harder to tell what was the root cause. If I have the time, I will see if I can run the rebuilt shocks before installing the Eclik. But since they are revalving them, I am not sure how that will change the ride vs OEM.

I will certainly update this thread.

Travis,

Thank you for choosing us here at Apollo Optics. I sent you an update from SDI.

 

[letsgetthisdone]

Stupid question. What would you all say the odds are of some sort of grit (like particles from the worn seals), that may cause the needle valve to get sticky?

That may explain some reported cases where some hard use may dislodge that debris and the system behaves better for a bit. Or variations in perceived harshness.

I could swear that just today while driving on the road, while still harsh, the ride seemed a tiny bit better today without changing a thing.

With how much this needle valve moves, I would find it unlikely for any scoring in the piston to be unlikely, but I very well could be wrong.

I guess if you let the shocks go way too long between rebuilds and the wear bands wear out, then piston starts wearing on the body this could happen. But shocks that are in good shape don't make a lot of metal shaving. And the condition of all of these parts should be checked at every rebuild, as the seal kits come with the orings for all of those small components.

 

[TravisHTX]

Update:

I took the shocks off and sent them to SDI for them to do the rebuild. Got them back Friday afternoon, got them installed that night. While I was waiting for the shocks, I got the Eclik controller installed.

While I would say there was a noticeable difference, I honestly would attribute much of the improvement to having full control over the shocks.

With the controller, you are able to adjust the rear and front shocks separately. When I set the rear shocks to full stiffness, then compare to full soft, there is only a very slight difference. The front shocks, the difference is more noticeable.

So I guess that means either the solenoids or the valves themselves are the problem. I would think that SDI checks operation of the valve during the rebuild, but I will confirm that on Monday.

A local dealer was able to find the rear solenoids near by, and will have them on Tuesday. I had to order the front solenoids online, which will probably take an additional week.

All that said, I give a tip of the hat to Kyle@Apollo-Optics, and SDI. They made the process of getting the shocks rebuilt as easy as possible.

Even though the rebuild did not seem to be the ultimate fix, it still needed to be done. One of the shafts had pitting that could not be repaired, which the folks at SDI sourced and replaced (and didn’t charge me extra for).

I will give another update once I get the rear solenoids replaced.

 

[TravisHTX]

Alright guys, I am at a loss.

I replaced the 2 rear solenoids. No difference.

I talked to SDI, he said that they do apply some power to the shock in order to open the valve so they can bleed it. So assuming the valves were able to open then, then I am not sure.

I must be missing something. The only other thing I can think of is the needle valve/piston of the live valve mechanism is getting stuck.

 

[TravisHTX]

Ok, I finally have an update for this thread. In summary, the shock rebuild was in fact the primary fix. I would consider this issue resolved now. So for the others out there with a similar problem, where it seems like all 4 corners are riding more firm than they should be, and no other mods have been made to the truck, I would start with a shock rebuild.

My issue was complicated due to changing multiple things at the same time (installing the SDI control system, and having the shocks rebuilt with modified valving). After I finally got done banging my head against a wall for a while, I got in touch with the people over at SDI, which I should have done sooner, but I am stubborn. They were incredibly helpful and took a good bit of time to answer my long list of questions.

Once the guys over at SDI got the details/symptoms to understand the issue, their first action/recommendation was the correct one. They asked me to ship the controller back to them. It appears that the controller got shipped out prior to getting the correct flash for my specific vehicle setup. Honest mistake, which I can easily see happening. Once I finally got around to shipping it to them, they diagnosed, flashed it, and got it back in the mail, in less than 24 hours, impressive. I will commend them on their customer service, some of the best I have experienced. They stand by their product. Can't ask for more than that!

Some of the details that I didn't know that added to my confusion. The SDI valving is more firm on the initial stroke, and even more so on end stroke. Apparently the live valve piston has additional room for opening than what the OEM VDM/controller will do. So even with the additional compression built into the shocks, the SDI controller (with the proper flash) will open the valves more to provide that OEM ride softness.


An additional thought, just to throw out there. My truck was an early build of the 2019s. When I was looking up part numbers for the solenoids and shocks, it looks like the part numbers that are on my truck have been superseded a few times. I have no idea what changes were made, if any, in the various part numbers over the years. I will say, when I replaced the rear solenoids with the latest part number, the buzzing noise they made was a different tone. And to me, it felt like the shocks may have been slightly more compliant. But its possible its just the placebo effect.


Now my truck goes in on Wednesday for cam phasers...

 

[TravisHTX]

And thanks to all the folks that chimed in and helped me figure this out!