Another 6.2 review!

[Madcowranch]

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q2/2010_ford_f-150_svt_raptor_6.2-first_drive_review

Dan...uhh...you may not want to read this.oopstorm:

 

[SLB8SNK]

Nice....

 

[Falcon]

Dan...uhh...you may not want to read this.

Naaa... Dan knows that if he doesn't agree with the SVT, and likes his 5.4... on THIS forum, that's his right. Just like it is our right to be excited about reviews like this. It confirms our leap of faith and assuages the pain of waiting 5 months for our trucks while everybody else was out blasting the dunes and having a ball.

We (on this forum anyway) never made a huge deal out of the fact that we believed the Boss 6.2L was the 'right' power plant for this truck. And we didn't beat up on the venerable 5.4L like people on 'some other' forum did. It's a hell of a motor... always was and always will be - just like the one sitting in my driveway.

I know you were just kidding... but one of the main reasons I am so glad to have found THIS forum is that people here are truly of a higher caliber, and don't fall prey to childish emotions and attitudes. I don't like to miss an opportunity to point that out <G>.

As for the review, though it confirms my belief about the engine, it also confirms my fear about the tires:

a truck wearing chunky mud tires proved the superiority of such rubber in those conditions, easily ripping its way out of existing ruts and powering down the straights 10 mph faster than the stock-tired trucks. The SVT team said that, despite the obvious benefit in our conditions, the mud tire is too much of a compromise in anything else. ...Midwestern buyers of the Raptor will seriously want to consider owning a set of mud tires.

I feel sure that the Dune runners would provide a ready market for our new stock tires... but what do we replace them with? I've said it before, and say it again... I REALLY wish the SVT would have made a mud tire an option for this truck. Half of the market in the US would gladly 'compromise' the high speed baja abilties for some kick ass mud tires that also have the onroad performance of the stock tires. I mean, you can't tell me that the SVT COULDN'T do it, just that they didn't think it was important enough. I maintain that was a mistake.

Mr. Grueber, is there any chance you could address this question? Perhaps the SVT considered mud tires and would say "Sure, if you don't care about sand performance... "These tires..." give you pretty much the same road handling and noise levels but still won't get you stuck in the mud." It would be GREAT if you or the SVT could chime in here... my truck was built on Tuesday, and I would like to know the answer to this question before it gets here. Just a request from the "Kinder, Gentler" SVT Raptor forum... <G>.

On the power plant... I have read about all there is out there on the 6.2L and the problems the SVT met and addressed during testing. I have always had the gut feeling that those that talk twin turbos and 500-700 horse power should talk be talking drive-train enhancements in the next sentence... haven't seen anything on beefing up the drive-train to get that power on the ground without a lot of sparks and snapping noises.

That said, the XT program must have addressed it. Perhaps a good part of the extra $62,000 in sticker price was spent on the drive train. But for the stock 6.2 Raptor... it is my contention that the 411 HP/434 lbs-ft is the 'match' for the Raptor weight, intended operating environment and drive-train component tensile strength.

"Although hardly a drag racer, the Raptor 6.2 had nobody asking for more power."

The SVT team tells us that not only do we not need more power, we don’t actually want more, either. Too much, they say, and the Raptor would run a much higher risk of snapping axles and otherwise munching itself.

"We’d say that sounds like loser talk if we weren’t so completely satisfied with the truck and this new engine. Its $3000 premium over the base engine—bumping the base price from $38,995 to $41,995—shouldn’t deter anyone. The 6.2-liter V-8 is the most essential of all Raptor options."

I obviously anyway agree... that's my .03 worth. (Hey, I am a proud level 2 supporter... surely that gives me another cent! <G>).

Falcon

 

[Madcowranch]

Well said Falcon.

 

[MarkT]

Expect the 6.2 to drop that time to somewhere around 7.1 seconds.

"Somewhere around"... sounds like they did some precise testing!

 

[SLB8SNK]

Mark, google 2011 SVT Raptor, or 2011 Raptor. Not sure why they are calling it the 2011, but they do. There are a few new articles and video of the 6.2 racing in the desert, pretty cool write up and good info!

 

[MagicMtnDan]

Dan...uhh...you may not want to read this

My only "issue" with the 6.2 is not the motor nor is it that it has more power than my Raptor's 5.4

What I have an issue with is the "mine's bigger than yours" posts and how some feel the need to talk about the 6.2 at the expense of the 5.4

We all know 6.2 > 5.4 so let's talk about how great the Raptor is with either motor and I'll be

 

[MagicMtnDan]

I feel sure that the Dune runners would provide a ready market for our new stock tires... but what do we replace them with? I've said it before, and say it again... I REALLY wish the SVT would have made a mud tire an option for this truck. Half of the market in the US would gladly 'compromise' the high speed baja abilties for some kick ass mud tires that also have the onroad performance of the stock tires. I mean, you can't tell me that the SVT COULDN'T do it, just that they didn't think it was important enough. I maintain that was a mistake.

Mr. Grueber, is there any chance you could address this question? Perhaps the SVT considered mud tires and would say "Sure, if you don't care about sand performance... "These tires..." give you pretty much the same road handling and noise levels but still won't get you stuck in the mud." It would be GREAT if you or the SVT could chime in here... my truck was built on Tuesday, and I would like to know the answer to this question before it gets here.

Attaboy Falcon (nice post).

Sure, some of us would be very interested in buying some of your BFG AT KO (stock) tires from you at a reasonable price (better than the throwaway price the tire shops might give you).

As for the tires AT vs MT - I'm not sure Ford (a) wanted to spend the time or money on qualifying more than one tire for the Raptor when (b) the vehicle was specially designed for (and in) the desert. But Mud Tires ARE an option for you guys - it's just not one "endorsed" by Ford but why would that stop you and why would you care?

The argument about all around tire performance is an important one and that point should not be overlooked when discussing tire selection. There are very good Mud Tires available - Brian is using General Grabbers I think. And I know people who swear by the Toyo tires but I don't know anyone using them on a Raptor (yet).

The internet's a great place to compare things like tires and their ratings and reviews of their performance. I know mud tires will perform much better in certain offroad conditions but I'll bet they won't perform as well as the BFG AT KO's all around in on road handling, braking and probably even in the rain. My point is not that the AT KO is the best tire for everyone just that it's a great tire that does well all around and it was a very good fit for Ford when it came time to specify a tire for the Raptor.

Now let's see those Mud Tires! And do let us know if/when you're selling your Raptor's shoes, the BFG All-Terrain T/A KO tires. :banana:

 

[FSM06]

I wouldn't overlook BFG Mud Terrains if I were you Falcon. I'm certainly not a tire expert, but in the mud, they have always performed well for me. (on other vehicles of course, not tried on the Raptor)

FSM

P.S. Your .02 has always been as good as your .03..............mox nix buddy!

 

[Falcon]

Damn... I gotta learn to express myself better.

...As for the tires AT vs MT - I'm not sure Ford (a) wanted to spend the time or money on qualifying more than one tire for the Raptor when (b) the vehicle was specially designed for (and in) the desert.

May be a valid point Dan. But I have read on several sites Ford Reps stating that the whole re-tweaking of the BFG tires was to address management's concern for mud performance, specifically in the upper mid-west. Ford engineers are far from dumb... at some point the decision was made to go with a desert tuned tire, with a few concessions for mud. I have no problem with that. What I think escaped you about my position is that I am sure the SVT did a LOT of testing with tires. I saw a pics of one Mule with a set of Toyo mud tires, no question.

But Mud Tires ARE an option for you guys - it's just not one "endorsed" by Ford but why would that stop you and why would you care?

I care because if the SVT has any data on a preferred mud tire, even though they didn't end up using it on the final product, who better qualified to trust? You never know unless you ask... it's not like we mid-west guys are too dumb to know we can put mud tires on... we just hesitate taking $1,000 worth of tires off and replacing them with something that may not be the best choice for the suspension and modified control arms in this truck. I mean, have you ever tried to research the "Best" tire for a truck on the internet? Talk about a world of conflicting opinions! I am simply saying that if Ford has ANY data on a preferred mud tire, then please provide it. It's not Rocket Science.

The argument about all around tire performance is an important one and that point should not be overlooked when discussing tire selection. There are very good Mud Tires available - Brian is using General Grabbers I think. And I know people who swear by the Toyo tires but I don't know anyone using them on a Raptor (yet).

There ya go, thats more like what I am saying. Of the whole internet, I trust the guys on this forum the most when it comes to advice about 4 wheeling. Period. So the thrust of my post was to try to generate interest in these members, and start a discussion that would be conducive to getting their best opinions.

The internet's a great place to compare things like tires and their ratings and reviews of their performance.

Again... great but confusing and often conflicting. My Dad told me that "as long as you are smart enough to know how ignorant you are, you will do fine" I am definitely ignorant when it comes to the best tires for mud on a Raptor. It's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you know. And as my Dad would always add... "and whether or not you've pissed them off recently" <G>. People like Brian and Kaiser have forgotten more about tires than I will ever know. Mayhap they were the type of people that I was trying to entice into spreading a bit of that knowledge around???

I know mud tires will perform much better in certain offroad conditions but I'll bet they won't perform as well as the BFG AT KO's all around in on road handling, braking and probably even in the rain. My point is not that the AT KO is the best tire for everyone just that it's a great tire that does well all around and it was a very good fit for Ford when it came time to specify a tire for the Raptor.

I really ...REALLY don't mean to be hard to deal with Dan. But that statement pretty much proves that you didn't understand what the heck I was trying to do. I am not concerned what the "Best tire for everyone" or a tire that "does well all around ... I am trying to figure out what is the best tire for ME. I KNOW that the BFG is the best tire for the desert... but it is NOT the best tire for mud as has been pointed out in many reviews, not in the least the "Car and Driver" article that I quoted. I am just trying to get the people that KNOW the answer to my question to come forward and engage... and not in the least Mr. Grueber and the SVT engineers.

Why am I making such a big deal out of this? It's because I don't think you realize just how much of a driving factor you are in this board. One of ESADs dumbest moves was to drive YOU off, and we are lucky to get you. But when you basically 'dismiss' my post, it is pretty much done. I still need an answer <G>. Also, a big reason I care about things like this is that I don't have a lot of disposable income. Don't get me wrong... there is no 'snivel' in that statement... I am not afraid to "pay to play" - but I don't have the luxury of making a $2,000 dollar mistake. So I ask people I trust to guide me with their knowledge.

Rest assured if I can find a suitable replacement, I WILL be selling my Raptor's shoes... and you have first option on them! <G>

Your pal,

Falcon