Are there better options for pads and rotors then OEM?

New recaros · Mar 13, 2024

A braking test with a human applying the brake will never be accurate as they can’t duplicate the exact spot the brakes are smashed. 1/10 of 1 second is 8 feet. Rig up system that is triggers the brakes electronically then maybe.
Look at what the manufacturers do. The increase braking bias to the front. I am sure that works great on dry pavement.

New recaros · Mar 13, 2024

smurfslayer said:
Got it. We should really just lock this, and all other braking threads and reference them all to you.

You started it by saying I was wrong. You got it right back at you.

smurfslayer · Mar 13, 2024

New recaros said:
You started it by saying I was wrong. You got it right back at you.

well... you kinda are. The abs is always a variable and it’s to keep you from locking the brakes and completely losing traction, not to make you stop in the shortest distance.

New recaros said:
Look at what the manufacturers do. The increase braking bias to the front. I am sure that works great on dry pavement.

Because weight and load shift to the front when you apply the brakes, compressing the front suspension, unloading the rear suspension, shifting the center of gravity, lessening the traction available to the rear tires. The front brakes will bear more load in braking wet or dry.

pat247 · Mar 13, 2024

goblues38 said:
I think I am just going with OEM as everything else looks like chinesium crap, but throwing this out for 1 last recommendation.

Rotated the tires this weekend and I am 1/16th of an inch from the wear makers touching the rotors. New pads an rotors needed within the month.

As someone in the same situation, I will go with OEM brakes as I have in the past. The original front pads were replaced at 90K and I'm now at 176k and I will replace the rotors and pads this time around. The part # for the Motorcraft brake pads I used at 90k was BR1414. I read that the superduty brake pads has a more aggressive compound part # BR1414SD.

New recaros · Mar 13, 2024

smurfslayer said:
well... you kinda are. The abs is always a variable and it’s to keep you from locking the brakes and completely losing traction, not to make you stop in the shortest distance.

No, you are out of context. I don’t disagree with your statements on how they work. My point is, if you testing, in this case brake components, all other things are too remain constant. Their tests have the truck in full ABS mode during the braking. The test is meaningless as the ABS is doing it’s thing based on tire traction. The pads, calipers, rotors have ALL been eliminated from having a true part in the test
as you go from lock to rolling with the ABS. As I said earlier weight bias adding more load to the front could help on a dry surface.
In other words, the ABS is going to respond to the set of conditions it senses no matter what components you add after it. As you know, it senses wheel speed.

CVP33 · Mar 13, 2024

Having owned 2 Z06’s (2016 and 2019) and now a Ford Raptor and having been active on both the Corvette forum and here. One common trait across both forums is the inability for some to give up an argument. I tried posting tests and data in threads on both sites and have found that once a flat-earther makes up their mind no amount of facts will convince them otherwise. Hence the flawed ABS = terminal deceleration and thus all brakes are merely a tire friction test. While that’s entirely and factually false, arguing back with facts, tests or data will not dissuade the flat-earther. The flat-earther will then just engage in what-about-ism citing:

- human reaction times
- tests weren’t conducted in a vacuum
- or simply it doesn’t matter because my truck was designed to go…….not whoa.

For those that can still listen, reason and make logical decisions I posit this - Some brake pads are terrible and take longer to stop a 6,000 pound vehicle. Like low dust, ceramic pads. Some brake pads are more aggressive, made with a material with a higher friction coefficient (think metallic), likely making more brake dust and possibly even making noise that some drivers find objectionable AND likely will stop said 6,000 pound vehicle in a shorter distance than the aforementioned ceramic pads. I’d like to hear about others experiences with the latter more aggressive pads.

Now this is where the flat-earthers will chime in a say……well the only reason you want to stop so badly is because you’re driving too fast and not leaving enough room to stop. To that I would respond…..YUP.

I‘m also curious that if you already believe that brake pads and rotors offer no solution due to the flawed terminal-deceleration + ABS = tire friction coefficient theory…….why repeatedly come to the ‘are there better brake option threads’. Possibly looking to witness and convert more flat-earthers?

blwn · Mar 13, 2024

Regardless if the OEM vs BBK stop in the same distance in an ABS braking event or not, the benefits of a BBK are felt the other 99% of the time with better more confident braking. I'm not sure if the Gen 3 and the electronic master cylinder are different, but I've heard the Gen 2 brakes were tuned for a softer brake pedal purposely since it was made to be used off road. While that could be true and beneficial, I much prefer my Alcon (Roush) front brake kit and how it feels in normal driving. I'd put it up there with Deaver's and GooseTuned tunes for best mods

Old-Raptor-guy · Mar 13, 2024

I would add some additional logic to @CVP33 s comment.

If anyone is in my AO (Northern Utah) and wants to test their stock brakes against my Alcons, let me know. @Zeusmotorworks and others may or may not be will to give the same offer.

If the goal is ABS activation in the worst possible conditions then Honda civic brakes are good enough for everyone

Our trucks are 4 channel ABS so locking up one or both rear tires "activating" ABS isn't a test as the fronts have a ton more traction and as such require/can tolerate more braking force.

Raptors are equipped with standard F150 brakes yet have a much larger tire contact patch.
Going with the larger/wider tires. Why do manufacturers of super high performance cars (think ZR1 and GT500) offer or provide a larger more powerful brake option when the standard brakes would be powerful enough to activate ABS.

I love the flat earther analogy!!!

Thinking that the manufacturer left a shit ton on the table when regarding engine performance, radio performance and/suspension performance, but nailed braking performance 110% is retarded!!!!

New recaros · Mar 13, 2024

You are trying to justify a position that only a select few are capable of.
All the back and forth was misinterpreted.
1. A braking test where 1/10 of 1 second is eight feet and the fact they were locking up the ABS system truly makes the test useless. If they were doing threshold or performance braking it would be more believable
2. Without a doubt there are higher friction pads. They feel great, makes one think they are braking better due to less peddle pressure required. But, again, if the stock pad and a fancy pad will both allow threshold braking, where is the gain? Let’s hear it?
3. I think pads, rotor and calipers and better fluid can help braking performance. You can reduce fade, have better control, IE: more controllable threshold braking, etc…
4. My argument is, none of this performance stuff helps much when you fully activate the ABS system. Panic brakeing, Like they did in the videos.
I also question if a system like Alcon would work well on very slick/snow and ice, knowing they shift the braking bias considerably to the front.
There is a huge difference in a track car and a truck that is used as a daily by most. A track car with a competent driver could probably out brake most ABS systems. And those cars have very well maintained systems to allow for precision and performance.
So, braking is the opposite of acceleration. What do drag racers do the increase acceleration? They heat up the tires by a burn out. They are just increasing tire traction. Hence, they can only accelerate as fast as there tires will allow. Yes, there is an art to that, just like braking. Full spin on acceleration or lock up during braking are not the fastest or best.

ToadSmasher2K1 · Mar 13, 2024

CVP33 said:
Having owned 2 Z06’s (2016 and 2019) and now a Ford Raptor and having been active on both the Corvette forum and here. One common trait across both forums is the inability for some to give up an argument. I tried posting tests and data in threads on both sites and have found that once a flat-earther makes up their mind no amount of facts will convince them otherwise. Hence the flawed ABS = terminal deceleration and thus all brakes are merely a tire friction test. While that’s entirely and factually false, arguing back with facts, tests or data will not dissuade the flat-earther. The flat-earther will then just engage in what-about-ism citing:

- human reaction times
- tests weren’t conducted in a vacuum
- or simply it doesn’t matter because my truck was designed to go…….not whoa.

For those that can still listen, reason and make logical decisions I posit this - Some brake pads are terrible and take longer to stop a 6,000 pound vehicle. Like low dust, ceramic pads. Some brake pads are more aggressive, made with a material with a higher friction coefficient (think metallic), likely making more brake dust and possibly even making noise that some drivers find objectionable AND likely will stop said 6,000 pound vehicle in a shorter distance than the aforementioned ceramic pads. I’d like to hear about others experiences with the latter more aggressive pads.

Now this is where the flat-earthers will chime in a say……well the only reason you want to stop so badly is because you’re driving too fast and not leaving enough room to stop. To that I would respond…..YUP.

I‘m also curious that if you already believe that brake pads and rotors offer no solution due to the flawed terminal-deceleration + ABS = tire friction coefficient theory…….why repeatedly come to the ‘are there better brake option threads’. Possibly looking to witness and convert more flat-earthers?

Corvette forum guys are never wrong, as long as you’re wearing long socks and jorts.

Are there better options for pads and rotors then OEM?

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