Throttle stuttering on acceleration

[ss_raptor]

What does this mean for us guys with an MPT tune? If ford comes out with a fix with a new PCM tune will my MPT tune overwrite this fix? Even with an MPT tune my truck still has this issue. It's not as bad with an MPT tune but its still noticeable. I gave up trying to fix mine after 2 dealerships basically said it was normal. I knew it wasn't normal and they knew it wasn't normal, nobody wanted to deal with it. Its crazy Ford knows about an issue this noticeable and hasn't fixed it yet. 03'Darin thanks for sticking with this and keeping us updated.

 

[smurfslayer]

The FSE contacted our tech. He will not be coming out. Basically here's the deal.....

Ford is aware of this issue. They currently are working on a fix for the 5.0/10 speed combo. They have done one update with minimal improvement. The issue comes from the PCM trying to maximize power based on a multitude of inputs. As the PCM is processing everything and pulling data from multiple tables it is causing the PCM to make abrupt subtle changes with the throttle body causing the feeling of an engine miss. Just FYI the spark plug change has ZERO affect on this.

So at this point they are not working on a fix for the Raptor motors. The way it sounds they have not had enough people report this issue to their dealers so it's not a priority concern.

So my suggestion is everyone that feels this issue needs to take the truck to their dealer and have them investigate. Once enough people complain Ford will prioritize this issue.

Update... The best thing we can do to get Ford working on this issue is call the Ford Customer Service line and report your complaint. That phone number is 1-800-396-3673

Thanks for the update on this. On one hand, I’m encouraged there’s not some major hard part or similar issue here, OTOH, it’s got to be frustrating.

I can’t recall, but, have you noticed this shifting manually?

 

[Ckhris]

What does this mean for us guys with an MPT tune? If ford comes out with a fix with a new PCM tune will my MPT tune overwrite this fix? Even with an MPT tune my truck still has this issue. It's not as bad with an MPT tune but its still noticeable. I gave up trying to fix mine after 2 dealerships basically said it was normal. I knew it wasn't normal and they knew it wasn't normal, nobody wanted to deal with it. Its crazy Ford knows about an issue this noticeable and hasn't fixed it yet. 03'Darin thanks for sticking with this and keeping us updated.

It means you contact MPT
Send them ur new PCM code
They look at it and redo the custom tune

The trans fix for mine is currently being worked by them. They sent me a new one but I got a ECM error. They are looking at it now, hoping Ill have it tomorrow.


Great news Darin

 

[03'Darin]

What does this mean for us guys with an MPT tune? If ford comes out with a fix with a new PCM tune will my MPT tune overwrite this fix? Even with an MPT tune my truck still has this issue. It's not as bad with an MPT tune but its still noticeable. I gave up trying to fix mine after 2 dealerships basically said it was normal. I knew it wasn't normal and they knew it wasn't normal, nobody wanted to deal with it. Its crazy Ford knows about an issue this noticeable and hasn't fixed it yet. 03'Darin thanks for sticking with this and keeping us updated.

Gladly.

The problem is very annoying in my truck. So bad that one day when we pulled out on a 4 lane road and I did a fairly long 2/3 throttle run my wife said "what's wrong with your truck?"

This is much more than one of the "it's normal" things that we should be content dealing with.

I'll be touching base with every contact I can think of with Ford trying to make sure they address this and get it fixed. I think the truck is much smarter than the programmers and that's why it hasn't been worked out yet.

Thanks for the update on this. On one hand, I’m encouraged there’s not some major hard part or similar issue here, OTOH, it’s got to be frustrating.

I can’t recall, but, have you noticed this shifting manually?

The only time I don't notice the issue is on a wide open pull. In my truck I cna feel the issue pretty much any time. Not very noticeable under light acceleration or just holding steady, more noticeable the harder you accelerate up until about the 3/4 throttle range. Above that it gets less noticeable up to ful throttle where you can't feel it.

If you want to see if your truck has this issue and how bad it is do this. The best example is to find a long up hill but you can also duplicate it on the flat. Drive along at say 30 - 40 mph. Start rolling in the throttle until the truck drops to 5th gear. At that point continue tipping throttle in trying to make a long steady pull while the truck stays in 5th gear. So as the truck goes faster accelerate more so that it stays in 5th. It feels like an engine miss from a bad spark plug or coil.

I did duplicate it in another 2017 Raptor and in a 2018 regular 3.5 Ecoboost F150. I did not try to duplicate it on any other models. Our FSE told us that all of the 18' F150's with the 10 speed do it. I can say that the 18' Regular F150 with the 3.5 ecoboost did not do it anywhere near as bad as my truck. So I'm thinking it's worse as you go up the line in engine performance.

What shocks me is that they are working on the 5.0 motor for this and neither of the 3.5 Ecoboost motors.

 

[smurfslayer]

This sounds like a classic failure of the distributed / agile project management model. Whatever is wrong, makes perfect sense to someone, but good luck finding them, hell they may no longer work for the company.

What about this - rather than keep trying to bang your head into the wall, find what s/w versions are running on your truck, compare with known trucks with the same issue and trucks without. My ’17 was born 11/16/16, and does not exhibit any symptom like you describe. There has to be a way to compare model, firmware, s/w, etc.

From there, someone has a punch list of what code changes were made. Or, maybe you could get a data log on a truck that doesn’t have the problem?

 

[03'Darin]

This sounds like a classic failure of the distributed / agile project management model. Whatever is wrong, makes perfect sense to someone, but good luck finding them, hell they may no longer work for the company.

What about this - rather than keep trying to bang your head into the wall, find what s/w versions are running on your truck, compare with known trucks with the same issue and trucks without. My ’17 was born 11/16/16, and does not exhibit any symptom like you describe. There has to be a way to compare model, firmware, s/w, etc.

From there, someone has a punch list of what code changes were made. Or, maybe you could get a data log on a truck that doesn’t have the problem?

I just assumed certain people just didn't feel it or they just assumed it was normal. Ford is telling us that all of the 10 spd trucks are doing it. My truck is worse than the others I've experienced it in. I did the PCM and TCM updates that had come out and it didn't change it at all. I'd assume that's the lasted software. If some trucks are doing it and some aren't I have trouble believing it's all software then.

 

[smurfslayer]

I just assumed certain people just didn't feel it or they just assumed it was normal. Ford is telling us that all of the 10 spd trucks are doing it. My truck is worse than the others I've experienced it in. I did the PCM and TCM updates that had come out and it didn't change it at all. I'd assume that's the lasted software. If some trucks are doing it and some aren't I have trouble believing it's all software then.

@03’Darin -

I’m still not sure we are talking about the same thing but I think I replicated what you’re talking about, albeit it’s much, much, much less severe than you describe. I did what you suggested and got Lucille up to 5th and felt a skip or 2 tipping in throttle.

To me, this feels like -every- other automatic trans car/truck I’ve had with a lock up converter and you’re at that awkward point where the truck wants to signal a converter lockup, but you suddenly change throttle position just slightly, or you let it lock up and then gas it, resulting in a clunky unlock and soft acceleration.

I get this in normal mode / 3rd gear most often when I am not completely stopped, take off in a turn. IF I am in first at takeoff, the truck jumps to 3rd, then tries to lock up the converter before my wheel is straight. once the wheel is straight and I gas it I get the skipping. It’s all transmission, I can tell. I’m not sure I could articulate to you how I can tell, I just can.

I think you already tripped over the answer with your converter slippage from the previous data logging. I’d start looking there.

BTW, I did a bunch of driving today - designated driver duty, and the ever so slight hesitation was instantly worked around by gassing it. I run a pedal commander so part throttle / normal for me and Lucille is a little more aggressive.

HTH.

 

[Guy]

My truck was built 12/2.

I have made attempts to replicate this issue in every possible manner.... from light acceleration to downshift with moderate throttle to 5th gear as you guys have stated.

I even tried lugging it in manual shift looking for a stumble on acceleration under load.

I have absolutely no miss, hesitation, converter lockup chatter, or stumble of any kind. It’s absolutely smooth.

So is it my tune? Don’t think so. The CAI? Doubtful. The intercooler? Hmmm...

The spd adapters didn’t do anything.... the catback?

Hmmm....

Any thoughts? I’m very in tune with things. If it was there i would feel it and tell you guys.

@03’Darin -

I’m still not sure we are talking about the same thing but I think I replicated what you’re talking about, albeit it’s much, much, much less severe than you describe. I did what you suggested and got Lucille up to 5th and felt a skip or 2 tipping in throttle.

To me, this feels like -every- other automatic trans car/truck I’ve had with a lock up converter and you’re at that awkward point where the truck wants to signal a converter lockup, but you suddenly change throttle position just slightly, or you let it lock up and then gas it, resulting in a clunky unlock and soft acceleration.

I get this in normal mode / 3rd gear most often when I am not completely stopped, take off in a turn. IF I am in first at takeoff, the truck jumps to 3rd, then tries to lock up the converter before my wheel is straight. once the wheel is straight and I gas it I get the skipping. It’s all transmission, I can tell. I’m not sure I could articulate to you how I can tell, I just can.

I think you already tripped over the answer with your converter slippage from the previous data logging. I’d start looking there.

BTW, I did a bunch of driving today - designated driver duty, and the ever so slight hesitation was instantly worked around by gassing it. I run a pedal commander so part throttle / normal for me and Lucille is a little more aggressive.

HTH.

 

[03'Darin]

It's interesting to hear that some of you don't have the issue. That means it's not "normal" in the trucks.

If you have the condition I do it's very noticeable. A long steady accelerating pull in 5th gear tends to show it the most. Doesn't matter if you are the driver or passenger it's obvious to everyone.

I've only had chance to be behind the wheel of one other Raptor and it's got the same issue. One of my other customers should be coming in for service pretty soon. I'll talk with him and see if I can take his truck for a short drive.

I'm assuming this issue is maybe slightly detectable in all of the trucks and maybe worse in others.

Smurfslayer we data logged all aspects of the transmission and torque converter. I think on our last logs everything was within the acceptable ranges. I'll double check on that.

 

[vr4henry]

Hey Darin, thanks for all the research. I was firmly in the camp of "my truck doesn't do this" but I wasn't reading your posts closely enough.

I basically always take long offramps/hills/etc at higher RPMs/high throttle.

If I do the 30-40% load (e.g. keep truck in gear) and accelerate up a hill, mine does it, too. It feels like older vehicles I've driven with a modified stall converter kind of deal. Not quite sure which gear it should be it, but not lockedup. I don't think you're crazy, I think the trans&ecu aren't communicating as clearly as they could be. I suggest folks try this recipe if they're curious:

1.) find an uphill grade (merge lane worked well for me)
2.) roll into it from ~20mph but keep throttle ~30-50% til you're up to 4th gear
3.) once you get to 5th, reduce throttle just enough to keep accelerating, but not enough to shift out of 5th