The Truth According to BF Goodrich Guys

[bradyh20]

There's also something to be said about a salesman or rep saying something and the design engineers saying something.

I know that many times when our company ($600B) sends representatives out, the first priority is that the person represent the company image and communicate well. Then we make sure that person is educated as much as possible about the product or process they're representing.

Many times, that person will give information that's just plain wrong without knowing it because they're not an engineer, and they weren't involved in the design process. You can't really blame them, but you also must recognize that all they're doing is getting customers in the door to set up the nerd vs. nerd conversation.

So I guess I hear what the rep at Ocotillo Wells said, but I'd put more stock in what Ford puts in writing.

 

[MagicMtnDan]

I understand what you're saying but 2 points:

1. This wasn't a rep. The people at the event were BFG factory people. The guy we spoke to was a factory guy and when I asked him the question he said, "let me get the expert" and he brought over another BFG employee to address and respond to the question.

2. I believe what Ford says but I hope someone can tell/show us where Ford says that the BFG T/A KO tires are special and specific to the Raptor and only the Raptor. If these tires are so special why doesn't it clearly say that in the Ford documentation that comes with the vehicle? If the tires are special and unique how are the tires marked to indicate that (it would have to be ON the tire otherwise the wrong ones could be used).

I suspect that these are the only tires this size that BFG makes and it's the tire that Ford chose to use. Therefore, these are "unique" tires with "special compound" (whatever the compound is in the BFG All-Terrain T/A KO is "special").

Bottom line for me: These are BFG A/T KO tires and (1) they can be bought at any BFG tire seller and (2) they can be replaced with other tires that, if they meet the specs set by Ford, will not cause any issues nor void any part of the Raptor's warranty.

 

[bradyh20]

I hear ya... and I probably agree with you.

At this point, I don't know what to think, and I am not sure I care. I know that when I need new tires, I'll be switching to the tires that ran on the Raptor R (and wheels too I think). And I also think that Ford would be retarded to make a truck that can't run on non-OEM tires.

So, I have no idea what the facts are, but realize that I don't care anymore. lol

 

[MarkT]

The Raptor Tires are different and are marked

Dan,

I think I understand what you are saying... the tires are not "special" enough that you *need* to stay with them.

I spoke to BFG Tech services today and confirmed the Raptor tires are in fact "different" and built to Ford Specs. ChadB already pointed out that there are two versions of the exact same size and model tire. You can see this for yourself at:

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/specs/all-terrain-t-a-ko/44.html

You can see that the speed rating, section width, and revs per mile specs are slightly different. The rep I spoke to said that this could be due to construction differences and/or rubber compound differences. I was also told that the tires look exactly the same but should not be mixed with each other. Use all four of one type or the other.

So how do you tell them apart? The easiest is the speed rating. The Raptor tire is marked 121S. The other tire is marked 121R.

But I was told the BEST way... and this applies to all tires... is the DOT number. The DOT numbers (except for the last 4 digits) should match according to the BFG rep. The last four digits are the week and year of manufacture and do not need to match.

Can these tires be bought at any BFG retailer? Yes.

Would it matter much if you bought the "R" version instead of the "S" version? The rep said they doubted that you would be able to tell the difference. But they did stress again that the two tires are different enough in construction that you should not mix them.

Bottom line: Change the tires if you want to. But if you are replacing part of a set, make sure you get a match to the stock tires.

P.S. The BFG rep said that if anyone has a problem with a Raptor tire... even if you are "abusing" it or damage it off road... to call their toll free number. They said that even if the problem is not covered under warranty they "always like to try to help out enthusiasts" when they can.

 

[MagicMtnDan]

Alright Mark! This is what I (we) were looking for! Thanks!

BUT (I find this very frustrating), I think this is unacceptable. Why? Because no one, no where, nothing in the documentation that comes with the Raptor tells us this information. I believe this information is correct BUT why aren't we, Raptor owners, told this anywhere? And if we are someone please tell me (us) where this information is provided.

Sheesh! Jeffrey either just bought a tire or is going to buy a tire and he and I tried to get to the bottom of this and couldn't. If he bought the "wrong" BFG tire then what recourse does he have???

So, as I understand it, here are the two tires that BF Goodrich offers in the size the Raptor uses:

Tire Size Svc Des. Sidewall MSPN Rim Range Section OADia Tread Revs/mile Max load Max Load Dual Orig Equip
LT315/70R17/D 121S BSW 12493 8.5 - 10 11.8 ON 8.5 34.5 17 606 3195@50 N/A FORD
LT315/70R17/D 121R BSW 54142 8.5 - 10 12 ON 8.5 34.5 17 601 3195@50 N/A GM

The only obvious difference I can see is the Service Description (121S vs. 121R).

Service description is defined by BFG as, "Numbers and letters molded in the sidewall indicating load carrying capacity, load index, and the speed at which the tire can carry a load under specified conditions, the speed rating. Also known as load index and speed symbol."

I hope someone can tell us the difference between 121S and 121R!

This is clear as mud. :spinning:

 

[ChadB]

I purchased one new tire and it is a "R". I am going to swap it out with the spare, so that all tires are the same. Working for a car dealer in Vegas, I ordered the tire that I thought was correct and even called the supplier and they couldnt answer what tire it was in stock.

I agree it is very frustrating trying to figure this out on a $300 tire.

 

[ChadB]

Oh, the tires do look identical other then the S vs. R in small print

 

[MagicMtnDan]

Oh, the tires do look identical other then the S vs. R in small print

Exactly! And we need to find out from someone what that letter difference means and why Ford doesn't tell us about this!

 

[MarkT]

In the Raptor supplement, Ford does say very clearly that the tires used are "unique" and recommend using only the OEM tire. (page 26) They go on to say that if you don't buy an OEM tire, you must match the size, load rating, and speed rating. If you follow those recommendations you can't go wrong.

(Ford has to be careful about requiring OEM parts only. They must draw the line at "recommending" OEM replacement parts because of the way the warranty laws are written... )

I did ask BFG what the difference between the "121S" and the "121R" load/speed ratings is. I was told that in terms of the load or speed rating, the difference is insignificant. The rep said that sometimes there is no difference in the tire at all and it's just that the manufacturer wants a unique rating. (The rep said sometimes a slightly different rating is requested just so Ford or GM or whoever has a different part number for "their" tire.) In terms of ratings, either will work fine in the application. BUT... In this case you can see that the section width is 0.2" narrower and the "revs per mile" are slightly higher for the Raptor version of the tire... This indicates that there is some, perhaps minor, difference in construction between the two versions of the tire.

The only concern is mixing them. And that didn't seem to be a HUGE concern... I was told that it's simply "not recommended" when I asked what might happen. (Off the record, the rep did say that you probably wouldn't notice a difference while driving but again, it's not recommended)

I think the problem here would be a tire dealer that doesn't care enough to make sure they are supplying you with the correct tire. They are the ones that should know to match the ratings exactly and/or the DOT number (except the last four digits) if you are replacing one tire in a set.

 

[Raptor enroute]

Ok I have read thru all this and I am still .........................................................well scratching my a$$ trying to figure it out, hope you were not thinking I had anything of any intellectual value that I could add to this BLUF I think I do not need to worry about it at least for a few thousand miles