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ROUSH Power Packs that KEEP your Warranty

Discussion in 'Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods' started by Specialtyperformanceparts, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. TXRaptor

    TXRaptor FRF Addict

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    Sorry to disagree with you, but unless they post dyno numbers on their CAI and list it on their website, I doubt you will see an 8-12 HP increase on a Raptor. I believe the rest of their numbers, but 57HP from a tune with CAI and Exhaust is less than most other vendors have shown with just a tune.
     
  2. BDF

    BDF Full Access Member

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    I was told by Roush that they dont claim hp from anything but the tune, for a reason.
     
  3. Specialtyperformanceparts

    Specialtyperformanceparts Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Just to clear up a few points (And my background, I have been in the Auto Industry for 22 years with Ford and dealt with Roush the last 12 of that as well.) So I can tell you based on that, I can promise, I have seen almost every scenario and no offense to anyone because there may be a handfull of people who have been in the industry like me out there, and seen situations first hand like me, but the majority only have a limited experience to go by and only reference 2nd hand experiences from posts or blogs (And in that, I mean limited whether it is Roush, Or Shelby, Or Ford Warranty, or Other Aftermarket parts).
    So here is what happens, and this happens in about any industry with the internet.
    Lets say you have 100 experiences with anything. Out of 100, 5 are dissatisfied. The only ones you see posts from or info from for the most part are those 5. Of those 5, they may get shared and duplicated many many times. The other 95 are happy. They typically go on with their lives. Some may post a good experience, but most don't. So like anything, be it a Dr. or Walmart, or a product. You really need to look deeper than the one comment you may see. (This is a way for us ALL to get proper information rather than draw conclusions in our life and all of our products, and don't get me wrong, some conclusions may be accurate, but many times they are skewed)
    The internet is great, but it can also be used politically to influence others falsly.
    I'll give you a scary example. China recently sarted a propaganda campaign on the internet to lie to their people and the world and start a Rumor that the Coronavirus started in the USA and that the US military brought it to China. They started posting blogs about it like a "Real US citizen" talking about their experiences. These articles sounded legit. They sold it well. Guess what. News agencies picked it up and repeated it. Then so did other bloggers, and so it spread. So while this may not be 100% relevant to this topic, it paints a picture of how things can spread and aplify and eventually morph into something they originally were not.
    Again, as we are all friends, I want all of you in your daily lives to do your research and go with your gut and make the most informed and relevant decision based on your situation in everything you do in your daily lives. However, I am just encouraging us all to take everything with a grain of salt and truly dig deeper because we live in a different world. There is SO MUCH information out there. Some is accurate... some is diluted... some is a blatant lie. If we all make it a point to take that extra step and verify, we will all be more informed. Also, with the example above, if you have a good experience with anything or any product and there is somewhere to review it or post your opinion, DO IT. If everyone puts their positive experiences out there just like people that put their negative ones out there on EVERYTHING, we will be helping each other to make better decisions. Always get facts and not opinions.

    So that was my general life tip with the internet. Just food for though.

    Now, to cover a few points.
    Like any company, things change. Just like any company, one may not offer a warranty and then they do. Or, they may make it longer in the future. So what may have been a fact 5 years in the past, it may have changed, so it is good to get recent facts, not old ones.

    So, as of 2018 to present, Roush changed their warranty to FREE, INCLUDED with all Power Packs and Superchargers for 3/36 from the IN SERVICE DATE of the vehicle. So what this means is, if you have 12,000 miles on the vehicle, it has 24,000 left. If you bought it 12 months ago, you have 24,000 miles left.
    Prior to 2018 they had what you had mentioned. If you purchased a part, you would get a 90 day part warranty. For extended coverage, you would purchase it from them for $495 or $995 depending on if it were a power pack or a supercharger. Again, that was prior to 2018.
    The current coverage is INCLUDED with those items and is not a 3rd party company. It is administered by Roush in the same way if you purchased a new Roush serialized vehicle.

    So getting into some more of the specifics.
    Ford vs Roush OEM Warranties.
    Both Ford and Roush want to protect themselves. How a warranty submission goes (and this is first hand experience from the dealer level) If it is an engine related issue and not clearly related to Roush, the dealer submits it to Ford. In many cases, they cover it. If Ford has the tech check something and deem it is not Fords fault, then it defaults to Roush. Ford and Roush BOTH will exclude coverage in many cases when another engine mod other than theirs is done that may have conflicted or caused the issue. Here is where the posts and some feedback out there may be skewed. Lets say you did a power pack on there which is covered by Roush. Then you put another turbo in or say you custom tune it beyond the Roush tune with another tuner. Roush will most likely deny the claim. So will Ford.
    Many times there is an underlying fact like that where you hear on a blog that the claim was denied. What you don't hear is the whole truth.
    Here is a true story about an experience I had with a customer who purchased a NEW 2013 GT500. He called me and told me it had 500 miles on it. He said he took it to a local dealer because the clutch disintegrated and they refused to fix it. I was defensive for him... I said, they can't do that. He said can I bring it to your dealership to get it fixed. I said of course. He had already posted on several forums. I had actually replied to a couple of them stating that I had just heard of a similar situation. I had no idea it was the same person. So here is an example of one guy, with many posts that may seem like many. Long and short, I called the Ford big wig regional Field tech I knew. I stood up for him. I said the dealer wouldn't even submit his claim. He told me no, that wasn't true. He said they did. He looked at the car already. He said the guy had Ford Roadside Assistance tow if FROM THE RACE TRACK and the time slips were in the passenger seat. He said it was inspected and was highly overheated due to the track and inexperience (you need to allow any cars clutch to cool when it starts feeling soft at a track). Of course he never told me any of that. He never posted any of that. In fact, he told me he was just driving down the road on the way to work and the clutch blew. So I think you can see why some comments and blogs and posts may need to be taken with a grain of salt.

    So here are the facts I can tell you from the first hand experience with Ford and Roush at a dealer level.

    They can both tell if a vehicle has had an aftermarket tune and then if it has been removed to get warranty coverage in the event of a failure to verify fault. Here are the ways.


    1: They require a tech to plug into the data port and read the computer file. They match the code side by side with stock. If different, they know its been tuned. In either case, both Ford and Roush may deny a claim.
    2: If the tune matches Fords tune, they do a key cycle check. The computer stores how many times a vehicle has been started. When you reprogram, that count starts over. If a vehicle with 12,000 miles has 2 starts on its file, they know it has been tuned and put back to stock.
    3: If they take the engine apart and look at the cylinders, they check for a spray pattern from the fuel injectors. That's a discolored circle on the top of the piston from fuel and firing. The circle will be one size with a stock tune. With an aftermarket tune, in most cases they spray more fuel and that spray pattern is larger.

    So the point of all this is that with ANY aftermarket part, you run a risk with Ford. Roush actually makes many of the parts for Ford vehicles and does a lot of the engineering for them, so they know what is and isn't safe. The odds of needing something warrantied goes down significantly because of that, but in turn, they offer their own coverage of 3/36.

    Last, 3rd party warranties. There are going to be several out there that can be extended up to 7 or 8 years. You can't group them anymore than you can say all white people or all Asians are the same. It depends on the company, their coverages and their exclusions, because they will all be different. The 3rd party company I was talking about that offers extended coverage now on Roush and many manufactures is MBPI. From what I have heard, they are very reputable. That is different though than Ford or Roush for the first 3/36.

    Hope this helps elaborate a little more.
     
    TheC-Don and GR8Ride like this.
  4. Specialtyperformanceparts

    Specialtyperformanceparts Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Oh, I am not disagreeing. That was not a factual number regarding a Raptor. If you re-read my comment, I said the gains with a CAI and exhaust today alone are very little because they are so high flow already. At MOST you may see an 8-12hp gain.. that wasn't a statement that you would. Maybe I needed to rephrase, but that's what I meant. I don't have the dyno numbers so I can't give you the true numbers. In fact, from one vehicle to another, depending on humidity, elevation, and even fuel, you could vary 12hp on a dyno with different runs. I could dyno a stock vehicle on a cool non humid day and get a higher number than adding a cai and dynoing it the next day when the temp and humidity levels went up. It's never an exact science.
     
  5. MTF

    MTF FRF Addict

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    Can you find out the exact Supplemental Warranty for the 2017-2020 EB HO 3.5L power pacs?

    P/N: 422171 (1118TT-PERFPK1) Pac1
    P/N: 422177 (1119HO-PERFPK3 Pac2
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  6. Specialtyperformanceparts

    Specialtyperformanceparts Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    MTF likes this.
  7. MTF

    MTF FRF Addict

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    OK I see the pac numbers on the form,
    I was looking at page 31 thur 33,
    I guess they forgot to modify page 31 to include all the pacs.

    Thanks
     
  8. K223

    K223 FRF Addict

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    To @Specialtyperformanceparts

    Since you have a great deal of experience in this industry and with Ford specifically. How many or realistically what rough percentage of owners have been denied warranty repair. Due to aftermarket tuning there vehicle over the years that you know of? Any specifics of the warranty claims?
     
  9. FordTechOne

    FordTechOne FRF Addict

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    "Clearly related to Roush" is a subjective term. Any powertrain failure that can be attributed in any way to the change in calibration or power output is the responsibility of Roush. If a piston melts down with a Roush tune, that is not Ford warranty. If a catalyst fails and sets P0420/P0430, that is not Ford warranty. If a transmission input shaft snaps with a Roush tune, that is not Ford warranty. Any dealer that submits it as such is committing warranty fraud. On the contrary, a powertrain failure unrelated to the modification, such as a transmission pan gasket leak or a sticking EVAP solenoid, is fully warrantied by Ford. I have worked extensively with Ford Field Service Engineers (FSEs) who are dispatched to inspect these modified vehicles; once they determine it's related to the modifications based on the failure mode, the customer is at the mercy of Roush. To be fair, I haven't worked directly with Roush myself, so I can't speak to their customer service or support.

    This is true. However, piston injector spray patterns only apply to diesels. If a piston on a gas engine has heavy carbon buildup, that can be attributed to an overly rich mixture, low compression, or oil passing the rings.

    You may be confusing Roush Industries - which provides Testing and Development Services for OEMs including Ford - with Roush Performance, which develops aftermarket performance parts. Ford contracts Roush as an outside supplier for services such as mule builds emissions testing, but they do not engineer Ford vehicles. That is all done internally.

    To that point, I have seen plenty of Roush induced failures on Roush modified vehicles. There is no data to suggest that Roush modified vehicles are any "safer" than any other vehicle with aftermarket modifications; however, the 3/36K warranty does set Roush apart in that they are willing to back up their modifications.
     
  10. Specialtyperformanceparts

    Specialtyperformanceparts Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Well that one I mentioned above about the GT500 was a specific one.
    There have been several. That one stuck out directly in my mind because of the situation.
    What I mentioned about the things both Ford and Roush look for are very true. One of the first things they both check with an engine failure is key cycles and cross check the tuning. If those don’t jive, they pretty much deny the
    Claim up front. Ford won’t always do that with Roush though, because they have such a great working relationship. You see, back in the 60’s Carroll Shelby was Ford right hand man. He raced for them, did engineering for them.. Today, Roush does that stuff for Ford.

    To establish that, here is a link to Ford Performance Parts page for a
    2018-2020 Supercharger. Notice in the Picture... look familiar? It has Roush on the case. That’s because Roush builds them for Ford Performance. It is the same Supercharger.

    https://www.fordracingparts.com/part/M-6066-M8

    So this points out the relationship these two companies have. I have much more understanding of their inner workings, but a lot of it is confidential and I can’t tell you everything they do together. I can just say a
    Lot. I’ll say this. The stock GT500’s, Raptors, and Ford GT supercars out today, wouldn’t be the same if Roush wasn’t in business.

    Needless to say, they work well together.
     

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