The 2017 Eco-Boost vs V8 Bench Racing / Whining thread

I love all V8s...but I've come to open mind about the V6 eco. I really like the new Raptor's styling so much...that I plan on getting one. I really like the Gen1 raptors also, but the new one just does something for me. I think it's cool we're gonna see some new tech in this truck. I think it's gonna pleasantly surprise.

Bulletnjm said:

I have tried to figure it out by thinking deeper than just bigger is better, but i still have yet to come up with anything. I think having a big ass V8 is just so deeply routed in our American muscle heritage, that it is just difficult to let go of for us. Now i know many supercars are converting to smaller displacement v6 turbos, but i still feel a truck NEEDS a V8. Now that is all my opinion, you can tell me 100x over that a turbo V6 is the better engine for a truck, but at the end of the day, i will always want the V8. But thats me. Merica' V8's and Guns, God Bless!

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Bullet pretty much nails it.

Back in the day if you didnt have a v8 (late 60s early 70s) you werent driving a real muscle car. Its in our roots to have big, loud, thirsty, powerful v8 motors so its a tradition thats hard to break.

But now with a lot more tech and science going into these motors the v8 is going to slowly be replaced with smaller more fuel efficient motors that give the some if not better power output. For some that will be hard to swallow and thats fine but sooner or later they will not have a choice.

Would I rather have a v8 in the gen 2? Of coarse. But if Ford can give me a replacement motor thats just as powerful (if not more) and better fuel economy Im not going to complain.

Looking at what is available on the engine market

I would luve to spoon the porsche 918 engine in the raptor



4.6l v8 @ 9000+ rpm max and 650 horses N/A

If i could get the hybrid or turbo's in there would be even more fun [emoji38]

Then its like 900ish

But that is just dreaming....
O and it still does 3L /100km or 78us MPG
Maybe lil less with the weight of a raptor [emoji28]

zanemasterx said:

...But if Ford can give me a replacement motor thats just as powerful (if not more) and better fuel economy Im not going to complain.

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I wouldn't complain either if they called it something else, like "Tremor" (did that) or Lightning 2 or whatever. But the Raptor is a brand built on v8. Like the Corvette. At least it used to be. Now, well, it is something else...

zanemasterx said:

Bullet pretty much nails it.

Back in the day if you didnt have a v8 (late 60s early 70s) you werent driving a real muscle car. Its in our roots to have big, loud, thirsty, powerful v8 motors so its a tradition thats hard to break.

But now with a lot more tech and science going into these motors the v8 is going to slowly be replaced with smaller more fuel efficient motors that give the some if not better power output. For some that will be hard to swallow and thats fine but sooner or later they will not have a choice.

Would I rather have a v8 in the gen 2? Of coarse. But if Ford can give me a replacement motor thats just as powerful (if not more) and better fuel economy Im not going to complain.

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Zene,

You are the biggest voice for the new Gen 2 V6tt on this thread(s). So let me pose these questions to you as I like to see how far down the rabbit hole you have thought. These all assume you are not using it a as a pavement princess and will actually go offroad. If you are just a pavement princess owner, then don't bother answering.

1. Direct inject motor are well known for valves being gummed up in the 40-60K range or even less then 30k. Now through in dirt and grime of real offroad use by owners. Do you think ford would invest in something to keep things happy with that amount of owner neglect?

I personally think their market is the 95% which are pavement princesses not the maybe 5% offroader who uses it as advertised. Thus a basic filter and cleaning for air but oil blow by, umm not so much.

2. Durability of the turbos to withstand owner abuse. By this I mean not 1000 miles of use then complete tear down and inspection by race techs. Be realistic owners will drive it hard then never do any inspection or up keep on average. You might but the masses I am sure will see issues sooner than later.

Don't get me wrong, I would love a lighter, more fuel efficient raptor but the longevity of turbos in dirt, in owners hands I right now do not see. So long term repair and up keep will be far more than what a old dumb V8 would be.

A lot of misinformation in here. Aluminum is not new tech. Turbos are not new tech. Direct injection is not new tech.

We've been told the death of the V8 was imminent for DECADES. But for those of us who live in reality, we have observed that the exact opposite has occurred. Audi, Porsche, Nissan, Infiniti, Ferrari, Maserati, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Toyota, all are now running V8s in trucks or performance cars (or both). Not to mention Ford, Dodge, Jeep, and Chevy.

On the other hand, the turbo V6 is not commonly used in performance or enthusiast oriented applications.

The reason Ford is putting the 3.5 in the Raptor is because they're already working on it for the GT. And the reason they're putting it in the GT is for Le Mans rules, not because it's a better engine for the job. Everybody, even Ford, knows it sounds like shit (do we really need to talk about the fake engine sounds again?) and the whole boost lag thing makes zero sense in an off road setting where throttle response and modulation are important. Now, towing a boat up a long hill, no one would argue that a turbo engine is the way to go for that application. But that's not what the Raptor is about.

Hopefully Ford fixes this like they did in 2010 when they put the 5.4 in for launch.

I'm definitely waiting to see before I make a move and everyone else really should be doing the same. Go check the F150 forums for all the quality issues the new models have had if you need a reminder about buying the first model year of anything.

m3dragon said:

Zene,

You are the biggest voice for the new Gen 2 V6tt on this thread(s). So let me pose these questions to you as I like to see how far down the rabbit hole you have thought. These all assume you are not using it a as a pavement princess and will actually go offroad. If you are just a pavement princess owner, then don't bother answering.

1. Direct inject motor are well known for valves being gummed up in the 40-60K range or even less then 30k. Now through in dirt and grime of real offroad use by owners. Do you think ford would invest in something to keep things happy with that amount of owner neglect?

I personally think their market is the 95% which are pavement princesses not the maybe 5% offroader who uses it as advertised. Thus a basic filter and cleaning for air but oil blow by, umm not so much.

2. Durability of the turbos to withstand owner abuse. By this I mean not 1000 miles of use then complete tear down and inspection by race techs. Be realistic owners will drive it hard then never do any inspection or up keep on average. You might but the masses I am sure will see issues sooner than later.

Don't get me wrong, I would love a lighter, more fuel efficient raptor but the longevity of turbos in dirt, in owners hands I right now do not see. So long term repair and up keep will be far more than what a old dumb V8 would be.

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Turbos have been in dirty environments for decades without issue. Look at all turbo diesels on the construction site, turbo diesel work trucks that never leave open pit mines, turbo diesel big rigs that exclusively haul logs through the mountains (and the list goes on). If you think youll put more hard use on a turbo than those machines I previously mentioned then you are pretty hardcore.

Turbos are not new tech, this is not some hocus pocus magic where Ford is crossing their fingers just hoping these new fangled turbos work well in the dirt.

Even if you think your truck wont be a "pavement princess" I can almost guarantee 99% of Raptors sold see pavement more than they see harsh offroad use. They know these are not going to be baja 1000 racers out of the box. Think about it a little, the average or even hardcore Raptor owner will daily drive this truck to and from work (on the pavement). Then on the weekends they will take it out to the mountains or desert and play around then rinse and repeat that cycle. 99% of Raptor owners are not running the baja every weekend hoping their truck doesnt fall apart due to "turbos that cant handle some dirt and dust".

Oil blow by is another issue with turbos but its not a problem that cant be mitigated a little with a catch can. I tore my 105k mile turbo subie down a couple months ago and the intake was fresh and clean. The compressor fins were shiny and new. Yes, it doesnt see a lot of offroad use but it does see a hell of a lot of dirt roads and according to you it should be clogged up with dirt and grit because of oil blow by and turbos being a weak link in the system.

Turbos are not new in the dirt, this is nothing new in the world of automotive technology, the turbos will be fine if everything is designed correctly.

But yes, turbos add complexity to the system but the good part is they are easily replaced and are fairly cheap if something horrible happens.

And at the end of the day no one is forcing you to like turbos or to buy the Gen 2. Love it or hate it you are entitled to your opinion.

edit: And if the Gen 2 ecoboost turns out to be a giant **** and starts to fall apart Ill admit I was wrong. But for now I dont think its all doom and gloom like everyone is trying to make it out to be.

Again Zen, you missed the question. In the hands of OWNERS, not construction crews with diesels and service intervals, Baja crews with race techs, will the civilian version be up to the task?

Yes most raptors see more pavement miles than dirt, that is not the question. Owners find things and do things out of engineer control. Those darn owners you know.

Sorry to say catch cans are not the silver bullet. Also subaru is WAY diff than a ford tt v6. Apples to oranges. So when you have to clean the valves at 30K cause of blow by and dirt grime, post picks.

Again your buying one and not saying you shouldn't. I am was just wondering if you truly had thought about everything that a new TT 6 would be, and if you were actually going to use it in the dirt. I think your very optimistic that a Verizon 1 new raptor will be what you think it is. But have fun either way and keep all 4 wheels pointed down.

m3dragon said:

Again Zen, you missed the question. In the hands of OWNERS, not construction crews with diesels and service intervals, Baja crews with race techs, will the civilian version be up to the task?

Yes most raptors see more pavement miles than dirt, that is not the question. Owners find things and do things out of engineer control. Those darn owners you know.

Sorry to say catch cans are not the silver bullet. Also subaru is WAY diff than a ford tt v6. Apples to oranges. So when you have to clean the valves at 30K cause of blow by and dirt grime, post picks.

Again your buying one and not saying you shouldn't. I am was just wondering if you truly had thought about everything that a new TT 6 would be, and if you were actually going to use it in the dirt. I think your very optimistic that a Verizon 1 new raptor will be what you think it is. But have fun either way and keep all 4 wheels pointed down.

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If you think every turbo vehicle on the job site gets tender love and care with set in stone service intervals youre sadly mistaken. There are MANY turbos that dont see any care other than oil changes until they actually do break which is usually after hundreds of thousands of miles and very high hours. Many of these crews cant pull machines out of service until absolutely necessary due to thin margins and lost production.

Sorry, Im an optimist and think Ford engineers deserve a little more credit than everyone is giving them. They are not reinventing anything nor are they introducing new technology never seen before so Ill give them credit until I start ******** on their parade.

No one knows if the new eco will be up to the task but I honestly hope it is. I do not wish to see anyone fail so Im staying optimistic about the Gen 2 design.

edit: And yes, after a bunch of owners get their hands on the Raptor Im sure a flaw or two will present itself but thats nothing new.

zanemasterx said:

If you think every turbo vehicle on the job site gets tender love and care with set in stone service intervals youre sadly mistaken. There are MANY turbos that dont see any care other than oil changes until they actually do break which is usually after hundreds of thousands of miles and very high hours. Many of these crews cant pull machines out of service until absolutely necessary due to thin margins and lost production.

Sorry, Im an optimist and think Ford engineers deserve a little more credit than everyone is giving them. They are not reinventing anything nor are they introducing new technology never seen before so Ill give them credit until I start ******** on their parade.

No one knows if the new eco will be up to the task but I honestly hope it is. I do not wish to see anyone fail so Im staying optimistic about the Gen 2 design.

edit: And yes, after a bunch of owners get their hands on the Raptor Im sure a flaw or two will present itself but thats nothing new.

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With a work truck, no one gives a shit about the warning lights that are on the dash, as long as it starts up, runs, and gets where it needs to go. Also, a lot of work trucks, similar to police cars, stay running for EXTENDED periods of time; which cuts down on the start/stop issues and build-up of normal everyday vehicles.

You're missing his point a bit, but you have your mind made up on a gen 2. Which we all expect to see you place an order as soon as the gates are open.