Bad IWE broke transfer case?

[FordTechOne]

Talking about the IWE and the axle nut coming lose.
The IWE in general is a terrible design.

Not at all. The Integrated Wheel End (IWE) is actually a Ford designed system that is exclusive to the industry and highly beneficial to reduced wear & tear as well as improved fuel economy. While the competition has the front axles engaged at all times (along with the front propshaft), the Ford system disengages the hubs so that there is no wear and tear on the front driveline or transfer case front bearings while in 2WD.

 

[Dane]

Not at all. The Integrated Wheel End (IWE) is actually a Ford designed system that is exclusive to the industry and highly beneficial to reduced wear & tear as well as improved fuel economy. While the competition has the front axles engaged at all times (along with the front propshaft), the Ford system disengages the hubs so that there is no wear and tear on the front driveline or transfer case front bearings while in 2WD.

I know what it does. Its purpose is good. The execution is weak and prone to all manner of failure. I’m speaking from personal experience breaking multiple sets - some under very non-exciting low stress conditions. I’ve replaced them. I’ve upgraded mine. I carry a spare. They are a poor design. Not a poor purpose.

Look at the countless threads on IWE issues. There’s a reason they’re so we’ll know. Absolutely the weakest part of the truck.

The first few sets I went through were replaced at different dealers under warranty. So don’t give me the “it was my fault because of blah blah” speech.

 

[smurfslayer]

Transfer cases are relatively simple mechanical assemblies. They can fail for one of three reasons:

• Manufacturing defect. Typically occurs soon after the vehicle is sold or within 3/36.
• Lack of maintenance.
• Abuse/modifications. Manufacturers test components only in their factory configuration; there are too many variables to account for otherwise. A component may pass every torture test in existence but might fail as soon as an untested change is made, such as a lift, increased tire size, suspension geometry modifications, etc. Once a vehicle is modified, all bets are off. That includes oversize tires, because the effect of such a modification on the driveline is not known unless extensive testing is done. And no manufacturer has the time, resources, or budget to test the implications of aftermarket modification.

You can break or cause malfunctions relatively easily if you try hard enough and I think this point gets overlooked on a lot of suspension modifications, altering geometry, lifting, leveling etc. The one comment I would make on this is that while Ford’s main testing is going to be focusing on the factory configuration, their certification is not snowflake. They don’t just test can it haul half a ton, they test can the truck haul a full bed of hardwood from temps between Alaska and Death Valley. We probably benefit from this by getting away with some mods that fly under the radar of this sort of testing abuse.

as an analogy, think about this-

The AK47 has a well deserved reputation for conscript soldier proof robustness and reliability. The design has very, very few inherent weaknesses and there are myriad examples of them running in conditions that defy most people’s understanding.

But you can stop one cold by firing polymer coated projectiles. Why you ask? heavy weight rounds that can be safely loaded to subsonic velocities to better suppress. In 30 years, I’ve only ever had to remove the AK gas tube twice. 1st time to replace it with an ultimak railed gas tube. The 2nd time was after about 15 polymer coated rounds fired. We needed a mallet to disassemble because there was polymer coating throughout the gas system.

Suppressing causes a whole heck of a lot more back pressure, gas and fouling. I had a ***** of a time getting the 308 AR running suppressed for more than a magazine, until we started drastically regulating gas and updating the buffer and main spring.

With the AK I ended up sourcing Lapua 200 grain FMJ to avoid the embarrassment of having to disassemble my AK at the range in front of dozens of AR shooters. Of course, they were all familiar with having to disassemble a gun to get it running again but I don’t think they’d ever seen an AK in parts form before

 

[GCATX]

Devil's advocate here, but just say you were doing, oh I don't know, 180mph, the front hubs suddenly decide to lock-in due to an IWE failure. Perhaps there was some sort of shock load imparted to the idled front drive parts in the Tcase?

Pretty thin, but I could maybe see that argument, if there is one to be had. I have no idea if this is even a thing and I am certainly not insinuating you abused the truck. I would find another dealer. Best of luck.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Not at all. The Integrated Wheel End (IWE) is actually a Ford designed system that is exclusive to the industry and highly beneficial to reduced wear & tear as well as improved fuel economy. While the competition has the front axles engaged at all times (along with the front propshaft), the Ford system disengages the hubs so that there is no wear and tear on the front driveline or transfer case front bearings while in 2WD.

I appreciate you being on the forum because you offer key insight that many of us do not have. But you are being disingenuous if you won’t admit that the IWEs are a terrible design. Yes, the points you made are correct in what Ford was trying to accomplish. But there is one big problem: the IWE systems are not reliable and do not age well with use! You can’t run them regularly and expect to even get 50k miles without something happening to them. So who gives a rip if your axles aren’t spinning to prevent wear, when you can’t reliably run your IWE system when you need to. Too many people have been left stranded and/or had problems with their 4WD—myself included—to say the design flaw isn’t real. Ford dropped the ball not changing the design on the Gen 2 Raptor.

I have watched videos from FordTechMakuloco and he seems to suggest that water gets into the IWE from water dripping from the cowl near the hood because the IWE is mounted near the cowl and firewall. Over time, the water/debris builds up in the IWE and effects the engagement, but can also effect the axle shaft and hub bearings depending on how much water/debris gets into the system.

 

[NASSTY]

I have watched videos from FordTechMakuloco and he seems to suggest that water gets into the IWE from water dripping from the cowl near the hood because the IWE is mounted near the cowl and firewall. Over time, the water/debris builds up in the IWE and effects the engagement, but can also effect the axle shaft and hub bearings depending on how much water/debris gets into the system.

That was on an older truck when the IWE solenoid was on the passenger side. The IWE solenoid on the 13th gen F150s is on the driver side and further out away from the cowl so it's not as susceptible to ingesting water.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

That was on an older truck when the IWE solenoid was on the passenger side. The IWE solenoid on the 13th gen F150s is on the driver side and further out away from the cowl so it's not as susceptible to ingesting water.

Yes, you are correct. But the IWE solenoid on the driver is still not far from the cowl. So I was thinking of maybe designing something to cover it more because FordTechMakuloco seemed to indicate that was the sole reason for them failing. The generation F150 you are noting were literally mounted to the firewall. I believe Dorman (or another company) made a box to house the IWE solenoid to protect it from the elements better. Either way, the IWEs still continue to fail regardless of what model Raptor you own.

This is the video for those that are interested:

Ford and Dorman make parts for it:





The problems is (as @NASSTY pointed out) newer Raptors don’t have the IWE solenoid mounted on the firewall where we could use a cover like those noted above.

 

[roostinyfz]

"the rest" seems to me you are hiding something.

I’d like to know which modifications you’re implying I have that could even cause a transfer case issue?

Perhaps my light bars? Intercooler? Or is it my fiberwerks? Bumpers? GPS? Please. Thanks for being the integrity police around here.

 

[Badgertits]

I’d like to know which modifications you’re implying I have that could even cause a transfer case issue?

Perhaps my light bars? Intercooler? Or is it my fiberwerks? Bumpers? GPS? Please. Thanks for being the integrity police around here.

I have way less experience w/ Fords than GM/Honda/Toyota - BUT I have been saying all along given the extensive mod potential of these trucks coupled w/ the somewhat complicated design you really gotta think out what is/isn't important in terms of risk vs reward in the mod department. I keep saying - $350-$1000 price range in mods for example - NO F*****G WAY IN HELL would I spend that on a CAI or a catch can or a big rad/grill blocking FMIC, instead of just a simple hand-held tune, why? ALL of em will have the same net result if the dealer wants to be a real **** - you could potentially void all or part of your powertrain, except the difference between a tune & those hard parts? While yeah there's a trace if they feel like digging - the hard parts are all out there for everyone to see (and blame) for a failure and YET NONE OF EM except for the tune actually provide a tangible increase in performance/economy. So why bother w/ the other nonsense? Bring a tuned truck w/ no other big mods into a dealer side by side next to a tuned/lifted/FMIC/exhaust/37"s/3.0's truck w/ a lightbar & both have tranny issues which one do you think they'll be more suspicious of and/or look harder into given a warranty claim?

Same goes for any other aspect of the truck. If you're running 37"s on aftermarket springs/shocks/control arms - why the F should the dealer warranty your transfer case/front diff/IWE/hubs?

VERY VERY common to have warranty repairs denied on failed ball joints, front diff, front bearings on GM trucks running a level/lift kit. I personally had a front bearing go prematurely on a Sierra w/ 2.5" lift & 12 lb per corner heavier 33"s & if I didn't have a good relationship w/ dealer they were looking to deny the coverage of the ball joint/hub - & those are relatively inexpensive parts.

Just being devils advocate a bit, I'm not saying its necessarily right or fair, but at the end of the day Ford & their dealers are in the business of turning a profit & constantly pushing through claims for warranty work on Ford corporate's dime on issues that probably could have been argued 50/50 one way or the other is not a recipe for a successful biz

You've altered the geometry/angles of the front suspension dramatically from stock, do you know whether the front driveshaft angle remained the same? Rear? The wear/tear stress limits of all moving parts on the truck were R&D'd/tested (including running that Baja 1000) & subsequently warrantied all 10000000% based on the truck riding on 35"s w/ the stock A-arms/spindles/ball joints in the factory setting & angles. Putting 37"s on alone will throw your speedo off, drop ya anywhere from .5-1.5+ mpg, drop your braking distance & add more stress on all braking components, alter all the suspension geometries & travel, and as I mentioned from the get go, SCREAM "MY TRUCK IS MODDED LOOK LOOK!!!" to the dealer. Blatantly.

You wanna play you gotta pay....unfortunately.

 

[roostinyfz]

I have way less experience w/ Fords than GM/Honda/Toyota - BUT I have been saying all along given the extensive mod potential of these trucks coupled w/ the somewhat complicated design you really gotta think out what is/isn't important in terms of risk vs reward in the mod department. I keep saying - $350-$1000 price range in mods for example - NO F*****G WAY IN HELL would I spend that on a CAI or a catch can or a big rad/grill blocking FMIC, instead of just a simple hand-held tune, why? ALL of em will have the same net result if the dealer wants to be a real **** - you could potentially void all or part of your powertrain, except the difference between a tune & those hard parts? While yeah there's a trace if they feel like digging - the hard parts are all out there for everyone to see (and blame) for a failure and YET NONE OF EM except for the tune actually provide a tangible increase in performance/economy. So why bother w/ the other nonsense? Bring a tuned truck w/ no other big mods into a dealer side by side next to a tuned/lifted/FMIC/exhaust/37"s/3.0's truck w/ a lightbar & both have tranny issues which one do you think they'll be more suspicious of and/or look harder into given a warranty claim?

Same goes for any other aspect of the truck. If you're running 37"s on aftermarket springs/shocks/control arms - why the F should the dealer warranty your transfer case/front diff/IWE/hubs?

VERY VERY common to have warranty repairs denied on failed ball joints, front diff, front bearings on GM trucks running a level/lift kit. I personally had a front bearing go prematurely on a Sierra w/ 2.5" lift & 12 lb per corner heavier 33"s & if I didn't have a good relationship w/ dealer they were looking to deny the coverage of the ball joint/hub - & those are relatively inexpensive parts.

Just being devils advocate a bit, I'm not saying its necessarily right or fair, but at the end of the day Ford & their dealers are in the business of turning a profit & constantly pushing through claims for warranty work on Ford corporate's dime on issues that probably could have been argued 50/50 one way or the other is not a recipe for a successful biz

You've altered the geometry/angles of the front suspension dramatically from stock, do you know whether the front driveshaft angle remained the same? Rear? The wear/tear stress limits of all moving parts on the truck were R&D'd/tested (including running that Baja 1000) & subsequently warrantied all 10000000% based on the truck riding on 35"s w/ the stock A-arms/spindles/ball joints in the factory setting & angles. Putting 37"s on alone will throw your speedo off, drop ya anywhere from .5-1.5+ mpg, drop your braking distance & add more stress on all braking components, alter all the suspension geometries & travel, and as I mentioned from the get go, SCREAM "MY TRUCK IS MODDED LOOK LOOK!!!" to the dealer. Blatantly.

You wanna play you gotta pay....unfortunately.

I agree with what you are saying actually. I pay to play fortunately. it’s fun.
This thread is about an IWE failure causing a transfer case failure. I don’t buy it. Neither does Kevin at HM neither does my transfer (Phil’s transmission in Mesa) case/tranny shop where we have done hundreds of trannys and dozens and dozens of transfer cases. Just wanting other opinions not a lecture on what I’m hiding or how I should spend my money on my truck.

BTW all my driveshaft angles are stock.