Octane rating vs fuel consumption

[Wilson]

I have 20k on mine e-30 first tank on, if I don't have access to e-30 I use 91

Do one of your tests to see how bad e-30 sucks

 

[Kenneth]

That's what I was thinking. Ethanol burns much dirtier than gas and engine modifications are needed when running E85. I think it's 33% less efficient than gas so you're getting less power and more engine deposits.

Pass

Exactly. From the way Wilson is talking, you'd think he owns a couple cornfields.

Here's the real deal on ethanol:

Pure gas gives better mileage than E10, and much better than E85, simply because gasoline has higher free energy than ethanol. The free energy of gasoline is 34.2 MJ per liter. The free energy of ethanol is 24.0 MJ per liter. That means E10 (10% ethanol) has a free energy of 33.2 MJ per liter, and E85 (85% ethanol) has a free energy of 25.6 MJ per liter. As a result, your mileage is reduced by 3% with E10 over pure gas, and 25% with E85 over pure gas, all else being equal. Mileage will be reduced even more if your engine doesn't run as well on E10.

---------- Post added at 05:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:10 PM ----------

Ethanol attracts and holds water in your gas tank. This is why you see the following manufacturer's warnings:

Mercury Marine - Prohibits use of E10 fuel - Quote, "We do not recommend the use of gasoline which contains alcohol because of the possible adverse effect the alcohol may have on the fuel system...may cause the following problems: corrosion of metal parts, deterioration of plastic parts, damage of internal parts, starting and operating difficulties, and water lock.". See note.

Nissan - E10 warnings/precautions only - Quote, "Gasoline containing alcohol may cause: wear and damage to bearings, cams, pistons and piston gears, corrosion of metal parts, deterioration of rubber and plastic parts, idling and performance problems.".

Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) - E10 warnings/precautions only - Quote, "Alcohol attracts and holds moisture that can cause corrosion of metallic parts in the fuel system and can cause engine performance problems.". (OMC was acquired by BRP Bombardier Recreational Products at the end of 2003.

Pleasurecraft Engine Group - Prohibits use of E10 fuel - Quote, "Gasoline containing alcohol is not recommended for use in your engine and may cause the following: hard starting and operating difficulties, corrosion of metal parts, excessive wear and damage to internal engine parts, fuel permeation through flexible fuel lines, and deterioration of some nonmetallic parts.".

 

[Wilson]

Exactly. From the way Wilson is talking, you'd think he owns a couple cornfields.

Here's the real deal on ethanol:



---------- Post added at 05:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:10 PM ----------

Ethanol attracts and holds water in your gas tank. This is why you see the following manufacturer's warnings:

Kennith What do you work for the gas monopoly? I said e-30 e-10 sucks. As I staded its ok to get ride of the crap gas bringing 85 watered down gas up to 87 and yes e-10 will collect and have a tendency to separate that water that the gas has in it! E-15 and higher displeases it better and is able to have it not separate as easly. I have ran e-30 for over ten years and have never had a water ishew including my boat. All fuels have water condensation in it.

 

[Kenneth]

Kennith What do you work for the gas monopoly?

I like playing Monopoly. But only of I get to rock the race car. Give me the thimble and I'm throwing it at your face.

I said e-30 e-10 sucks. As I staded its ok to get ride of the crap gas bringing 85 watered down gas up to 87 and yes e-10 will collect and have a tendency to separate that water that the gas has in it! E-15 and higher displeases it better and is able to have it not separate as easly. I have ran e-30 for over ten years and have never had a water ishew including my boat. All fuels have water condensation in it.

So you're saying that if you have a chemical at 10%, and it has water absorbing properties along with solvent and destructive qualities... That at a 30% mixture, it somehow negates these affects.

Look Wilson, I like you and I think you're a good guy, and I'm sure that you've had positive experiences with e-30, but it's possible that you might be a little wrong on this. I wouldn't lose any respect for you if that were the case. Promise.

 

[justuspost]

What's the frequency Kenneth?

 

[Wilson]

I've never had any real problems with e-10 back in the day but I know it can seperate water if there is some to be separated.
I'd like to see some pictures of this destructiveness ethanol has caused!

 

[Kenneth]

I'd like to see some pictures of this destructiveness ethanol has caused!

Google search amigo

E-10 Alive: The corrosive damage ethanol gasoline does to your fuel pump | Equipment World | Construction Equipment, News and Information | Heavy Construction Equipment

See Ethanol Damage UP CLOSE! | The Blog at Jacks Small Engines

Gas with ethanol can make small engines fail

---------- Post added at 12:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 AM ----------

What's the frequency Kenneth?

∞, provided never an empty bottle.. or an empty bed.

 

[johndjmix]

You guys want to settle this? I have a friend here in Denver that has a dyno.

Someone bring their truck by and we can try it with 87,91 and that e30 stuff. This was there is identical conditions per run. Let's see the power/economy difference.

--John.

 

[The Macf]

 

[Jigks]

Having read all the posts on this thread I had started and sorry it's turned a little off topic. I also read up on our main suppliers fuel here in Australia and the higher octane fuels also have additives to give added benefit. To quote them:

"Formulated to clean your engine and help keep it clean, BP Ultimate gives you more performance and less pollution. It also reduces exhaust emissions and is less harmful to the environment. With ongoing use enjoy the benefits of more power, sharper acceleration and more kilometres. BP Ultimate unleaded is an advanced, high-octane fuel. Its unique formulation contains a number of ingredients, each of which has been designed to perform a special task to help deliver the benefits of the fuel."

I am pretty sure the extra "mileage" probably doesn't negate the cost difference in my case. However we all seem to agree that higher octane doesn't give you more mileage from the pure aspect of the octane rating itself. But modern engines who can take advantage of higher octane fuels can advance the timing thus in general give more power from the same amount of fuel thereby as a result you needing to use less fuel under the same driving or power requirements and the end result is potentially increased gas mileage although quite minimally. Nothing like we would all hope it does!