GEN 2 My prediction on the 5.2

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Badgertits

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That's a possibility. While they do make good power if designed for it, there's some distinct disadvantages and advantages with hybrids.

Disadvantages:
-More shit to fail for sure. The TT V6 is already a extremely complex power plant. DI, 4V, TT, VVT - What can Ford do to make it even more complex? Throw an additional power train on top of it. That's not a recipe for increasing reliability.

-Cost.

-Weight.

-Cold environments. Lots of F150s are operated regularly EXTREMELY cold conditions, although those types would probably pass on any powertrain that relies on a battery for anything other than starting it.

-The battery pack output degrades over time.

Advantages:
-More power.
-Better mileage.

You can get more power without a hybrid setup, so in the end the only real advantage is better mileage. Plenty of downsides, but only one upside IMO. It's a biggie, but it's still the only reason to buy a hybrid if a non-hybrid option is available with similar performance.


You hit the nail on the head for another one of the biggest knocks on EVs that’s seldom talked about. They’re pretty much neutered in sever cold. You wouldnt/shouldn’t trust a Tesla X as your sole vehicle trekking through northern New England in the winter for example. I read some car mag article comparing some 4x4 SUVs or trucks (honestly the raptor May have been involved) but @ any rate they mention one of the journalists baling out a family member w/ one of the SUVs they were testing that was stranded in northern Cali- not due to insufficient tires/drivetrain - was a Tesla w/ chains I think - but because it essentially went dead from the cold.

Here’s EV’s in a nutshell- a pipedream peddled to the public on the backs of CAFE regulations forced onto automakers who for the most part were never really ready to R&D or push for EVs @ this point & we’re still refining & perfecting the gas, diesel, & gas/diesel hybrid models that easily could leave a smaller carbon footprint than the EVs once you consider the other HUGE elephant in the room- “cart before the horse”- could never be more fitting- our power grid is still predominantly non-renewable & until we can say 90% of the grid is green- NONE of the EVs are- the coal fired + trash incineration plants are not going anywhere & disrupting envirnonments by “forcing” green energy like harnessing more hydro power by flooding forests for instance or sticking wind farms in the ocean impeding the natural movement of wildlife & requiring all kinds of maintenance & raw materials- BS. Then you could go into the discussion of how even when the renewable energy source is derived in the truest “green” way possible (solar panels for instance) the majority of the time the power gets lost to ground since it isnt always utilized @ peak/optimum levels & we are way behind the 8 ball when it comes to power storage.

Then consider that the batteries are not easily recycled & cant be handled by the typical large auto shredder plant that handles 99% of the waste metal in the nation including traditional cars. The recycling process loses some of the original raw materials & creates hazardous byproducts, it’s also not economical - so expect more taxpayer funded subsidies to force it to happen while traditional recyclers get screwed.

Then let’s talk about the lack of charging stations & more importantly the length of time to get a full charge- even if it was a avg of 30 mins, which would be FAST compared to reality- that’s still 6-7x slower than gassing up a 36 gallon Raptor!!!

How would you like to be sitting in dead stop Shanghai, London, LA or Boston during rush hour behind the ******* who ran outta juice in the dead center lane?

Oh- and now they’re getting people to trust being driven around autonomously by a damn appliance that we still can’t seem to get an airbag straight w/ & the lemmings/sheep all are accepting of that kool aid that AI self driving cars are good to go an unfinished technology that is merely years old - and YET - the same industry is getting sued left & right cuz they can’t get an airbag sorted out? Mmmkay. Forget about waiting to get a charge you’ll be waiting in line for your divorce proceeding while the courts get weighed down by countless self driving car lawsuits!!!! Oh and while they’re on that kool aid, they refuse to accept nuclear power as an abundant clean energy source b/c it’s “scary” yet that tech is 100x older than ******** AI shit! Tally up how many people in history of earth have been killed by nuclear anything- including bombs- & I’m guessing it ain’t even close to how many people die as a result of motor vehicles in a calendar year in N. America.

Focus on getting the grid green. Focus on pushing solar panel technology in major cities all over hardscapes & skyscrapers & utilities - make it national building code set in stone for any municipality or govt related project- & it’ll start trickling down to the commercial/resedential space.

Until then? EVs are a fraud that’s been pushed onto the public.

Lastly- yeah some EV could probably beat my Z06 in the 1/4 mile...once or twice, let’s see what happens the 5th or 6th time when they lose peak charge? How bout running me down @ VIR or Englishtown? Laughable. What they gonna ask for a “timeout” to recharge?

Just like an upgraded intercooler gives a ttV6 raptor ability to produce peak performance consistently & repeatedly, but may be at a disadvantage w/ a stock IC against a similarly powerful/equipped truck powered by a N/A V8. Except right now there’s nothing that can keep an EV from running hard 100% until the last drop of energy is depleted same way a mustang would run til you ran outta gas.

It isn’t that I hate the idea of the technology of EVs in a vacuum, I just can’t stand the fraudulent way they’ve been peddled to the less informed public & how Dbags driving em tend to look down on someone w/ a Raptor for being “greener” or how some idiot w/ a Tesla says “I bet I can beat ya in your vette” - yeah maybe once, maybe in a straight line, but it’s a one-off parlor trick.
 
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melvimbe

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My understanding of hybrids was that the electric motor was not additional horsepower over the combustion engine, but that the vehicle would switch between motors, using the electric motor whenever it could in order to lower overall gas mileage. The other 'bonus' feature is that electric motors are 'quicker' getting the vehicles up to speed faster. Since you don't see many hybrids around anymore, you could say that gas mileage became less of advantage with lower gas prices, and the 'bonus' wasn't enough to make hybrids attractive given the extra price and potential maintenance?

Full EVs have come along and improved things quite a bit for sure. Are we now at a point where hybrids are not about replacing the ICE at times, but adding to the total power at times? Has that ever been done in a hybrid before?
 

Sernas

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If it was such a big liability they wouldn’t make high hp cars? They make more and more

Raptor isn’t a Baja truck...dude...

Raptor isn’t driven by professionals...dude

Manufactures have real life big boy liability issues with big hp cars, dude.

look at the issues dodge had with the demon, dude.

Is say google it troll but your 30 min time of free internet at the library is over, dude.

troll away, dude. Troll away.
 

EricM

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My understanding of hybrids was that the electric motor was not additional horsepower over the combustion engine, but that the vehicle would switch between motors, using the electric motor whenever it could in order to lower overall gas mileage. The other 'bonus' feature is that electric motors are 'quicker' getting the vehicles up to speed faster. Since you don't see many hybrids around anymore, you could say that gas mileage became less of advantage with lower gas prices, and the 'bonus' wasn't enough to make hybrids attractive given the extra price and potential maintenance?

Full EVs have come along and improved things quite a bit for sure. Are we now at a point where hybrids are not about replacing the ICE at times, but adding to the total power at times? Has that ever been done in a hybrid before?

AFAIK, all hybrids combine the gas + the electric output for a total output. That is not new. They can switch to one or the other under light loads, but if you floor it, you get both.
 

K223

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We’re talking about Raptors here, so a similar performance non hybrid powertrain, if they go that route, is exceedingly unlikely. In fact, it would be marketing suicide.

I can see them possibly implementing that battery tech on the Rap, and if all things are equal that’s about 600/600 hp/tq with zero done to the current ecoboost, which again would be marketing suicide to not add more power to the base power plant.

I can see them breaking 500 crank hp on the current 3.5, maybe slightly more torque. Then option the Lincoln hybrid system and you have more than enough acceleration on demand.

Unless you want to shack up in a remote hut to author your anti-technology manifesto, the too much technology horse has already left the barn. It’s already impossible to disable all the electro-nannies completely.

I can almost see this upgrade coming soon. Ford can keep there current engine tech, tune it a little more and add in the electro hybrid tech that they already have in use. The new Aviator to come out in the spring is basically 600 lbs-ft/ 494HP rated. Given the instant torque the electric motor can give, these numbers would feel even greater behind the wheel. They are using the 10 speed tranny as well.

I wouldn’t doubt say the Limited F-150 having this powertrain soon. Most likely the Raptor too as they have to keep up with the Jones’.

If this mysterious 5.2 Mustang motor in some form appears in the Raptor then it could delay the hybrid power train a little longer.
 

jaggwaa

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He's not wrong though. Eventually the required HP levels needed to sell a $75K halo truck will require more displacement.

Everything is relative. When your truck has 450 HP, 800 HP seems like SO MUCH and totally overkill. But when you come home with your 800 HP truck- it's just really not that big of a deal. 800 HP is what it CAN put out. There is a gas pedal that allows to to modulate the power.

I'm sure if we had this discussion 20 years ago everyone would say there's NO WAY half ton trucks will ever have 450+ HP, yet- here we are. 500+ HP n/a V8s will be common very soon.

We are living in the golden age of HP. The 60s muscle cars were flat out weak-sauce compared to any muscle car sold today. Even saddled with an extra 1000 lbs, new sports cars will flat out destroy even the very fastest limited production muscle car from back in the day. We have 1000 ft-lb diesels, Vettes running mid 10s from the factory.. I mean seriously, you really think Ford can stick with a small, boosted to the moon V6 indefinitely?
Finally someone with foresight. As a wall street guy, i study trends in terms of 10 years or 20. Ford is only getting away with 3.5eb in raptor is because there is no competition. Your analysis is on point man.
 

jaggwaa

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yet they put the 3.5 EB in the Ford GT supercar with 647 hp and 550 ft/lbs...
And how many of these do u see on road every day. I cancelled my plan to buy Lamborghini Urus when i saw same audi v8 in it. I expected at least huracan v10. I seriously never considered ford gt a supercar, and its ugly as hell...lol
 

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