It's been 2 full months now

[BaseRaptor]

It looks like the 2020 C8 Corvette is going to have a very limited production run. I have seen a total of one C8 on the road and it's a great looking sports car. Photos and videos don't do it justice.

 

[Troutrad]

Coming from a Tundra I would be curious to know what you love about your new Ford Raptor. The Tundra has an enviable reputation as having a bulletproof drivetrain that will easily go 300k miles.

I was a Toyota fan for many years. Still have my 2000 Tundra and it is bulletproof; as is my 1989 Toyota 4x4. Don’t think I’ve had anything done to the Tundra cept basic maintenance. I kept waiting and waiting for Toyota to finally come out with a new Tundra, but they are still riding their 2007 model with only cursory upgrades. I really think that if Toyota decided to go head to head with the Raptor, they could put out something worthwhile...but alas, I could not wait any longer and now, I can’t imagine being in anything else except this Big Red Beast. My biggest worry is the nickel and dime maintenance which I never experienced in all my years as a Toyota owner.

So far, having a blast modding this thing though. The steering is a big more precise and the obvious suspension is amazing by comparison. It just eats up the bumps, potholes and swales in all the off-pavement driving I do daily.

 

[FordTechOne]

I was a Toyota fan for many years. Still have my 2000 Tundra and it is bulletproof; as is my 1989 Toyota 4x4. Don’t think I’ve had anything done to the Tundra cept basic maintenance. I kept waiting and waiting for Toyota to finally come out with a new Tundra, but they are still riding their 2007 model with only cursory upgrades. I really think that if Toyota decided to go head to head with the Raptor, they could put out something worthwhile...but alas, I could not wait any longer and now, I can’t imagine being in anything else except this Big Red Beast. My biggest worry is the nickel and dime maintenance which I never experienced in all my years as a Toyota owner.

So far, having a blast modding this thing though. The steering is a big more precise and the obvious suspension is amazing by comparison. It just eats up the bumps, potholes and swales in all the off-pavement driving I do daily.

What is "nickel and dime" maintenance?

As a technician that has torn down everything from KIAs to Porsches, I still can't believe that Toyota is still riding on a reputation dating back to the 70's. Toyota is no more "reliable" than any other brand...in fact, they typically cost more to fix when they break. And they certainly do break, which is what pays my bills.

 

[sixshooter_45]

Yeah that C8 with its mid engine design handles extremely well.

Congratulations and welcome to FRF, excellent color choice.

 

[FordTechOne]

Coming from a Tundra I would be curious to know what you love about your new Ford Raptor. The Tundra has an enviable reputation as having a bulletproof drivetrain that will easily go 300k miles.

Not sure how these types of rumors continue to promulgate, but I can only guess they originate with the people who buy a worst-in-class pickup and need an excuse as to why they decided to buy one for the same price as a best in class pickup.

Toyota underestimated the truck market when they debuted the newest - and current - Tundra in 2007, just as they did with the 2000 Tundra, which was nothing more than a weak F-150 ripoff. With their 2007 launch, they had all intentions of *finally* sweeping up and claiming majority market share the same way that a 1997 Camry did against a 1997 Taurus. They got it all wrong again, and failed. Their relied on their "i-force" V8 and oversize door handles and stereo knobs to steal market share, all while vastly underestimating the manufacturers in the country that invented the pickup. The Japanese do not understand American trucks buyers or their needs, as full-size trucks do not, and have never, existed in japan.

The 2007 Tundra debuted looking like a beached walrus, and immediately earned a reputation for a paper mache tailgate that would collapse with the load of a motorcycle or 4 wheeler and camshafts that would snap in half and destroy the engine. Toyota tried to save face with the camshafts claiming to the press that it was an "early production issue" that was isolated and resolved, but the other failures continued and still affect 2020 models to this day.

Unlike American engineering, Toyota's "i-force" 4.6/5.7 uses girdles to hold the camshafts to the cylinder heads, which are sealed with RTV in typical japanese fashion. They do not believe in gaskets or lock-tite. They're a nightmare to service. The 2020's are still experiencing the same issue:

https://www.tundras.com/threads/cam-shaft-tower-seal-leaking-please-read.20102/page-3

 

[jabroni619]

Coming from a Tundra I would be curious to know what you love about your new Ford Raptor. The Tundra has an enviable reputation as having a bulletproof drivetrain that will easily go 300k miles.

Power, comfort, looks (inside and out), technology, off road cred, literally everything... Tundra is reliable, but that doesn't make everything else unreliable

 

[FordTechOne]

TFL Trucks did a video on longest lasting trucks where they go over registered vehicles over 100k, 200k, and 300k. Tundra was top of the list. Toyota is known for durability but they are terrible at engineering new stuff. Old body styles, old engines, old infotainment, and inefficient vehicles. I’m at 2 mo ownership also...truck was in Yesterday for an oil leak. They put dye in and told me to come back after 300miles...now that I’m telecommuting I need to figure out a way to drive 300miles haha.

TFL Truck is an internet video channel; not a legitimate source for information. I enjoy their videos, but they aren't establishing their own industry standard.

Toyota is notorious for not changing their models and updating only the bare minimum to keep their loyal followers buying their overpriced outdated junk, relying solely on reputation for sales. That is how a company survives when they are selling 2020 models with drum brakes and infotainment systems that date back 15 years. They still rely on a reputation they (barely) earned in the 70/80's, and it's not even remotely relevant today.

As far as the longest lasting trucks, one need to look no further than commercial/industrial applications to see what continues to sell and last the longest decade after decade. I'm referring to industries such as forestry, oil/natural gas drilling, construction, agriculture, mining, and utilities. F-Series is #1, followed by GM and RAM. Toyota and Nissan doesn't even make the chart, because they can't survive commercial or industrial work. These companies are not biased; they buy the product that lasts the longest and has the lowest operating cost.

 

[Denvertaco07]

Not sure how these types of rumors continue to promulgate, but I can only guess they originate with the people who buy a worst-in-class pickup and need an excuse as to why they decided to buy one for the same price as a best in class pickup.

Toyota underestimated the truck market when they debuted the newest - and current - Tundra in 2007, just as they did with the 2000 Tundra, which was nothing more than a weak F-150 ripoff. With their 2007 launch, they had all intentions of *finally* sweeping up and claiming majority market share the same way that a 1997 Camry did against a 1997 Taurus. They got it all wrong again, and failed. Their relied on their "i-force" V8 and oversize door handles and stereo knobs to steal market share, all while vastly underestimating the manufacturers in the country that invented the pickup. The Japanese do not understand American trucks buyers or their needs, as full-size trucks do not, and have never, existed in japan.

The 2007 Tundra debuted looking like a beached walrus, and immediately earned a reputation for a paper mache tailgate that would collapse with the load of a motorcycle or 4 wheeler and camshafts that would snap in half and destroy the engine. Toyota tried to save face with the camshafts claiming to the press that it was an "early production issue" that was isolated and resolved, but the other failures continued and still affect 2020 models to this day.

Unlike American engineering, Toyota's "i-force" 4.6/5.7 uses girdles to hold the camshafts to the cylinder heads, which are sealed with RTV in typical japanese fashion. They do not believe in gaskets or lock-tite. They're a nightmare to service. The 2020's are already experiencing the same issue, because Toyota only changes design by necessity:

https://www.tundras.com/threads/cam-shaft-tower-seal-leaking-please-read.20102/page-3

I had an 07 Tacoma, hence the username (carried over many car forums throughout the years, cuz i'm lazy to think of a new one), they had the same weak tailgate issues as well. I was a Toyota guy for many years, first car was an 87 Toyota 4x4 in high school. I agree that Toyota has really neglected updating both Tacoma and Tundra, they are ridding their "reputation" too far.

I was going to get a GM truck, either the AT4 or Trailboss, but the Raptor is just so unique to the market I had to have one. the Toyota offerings were quickly discarded in my search, because they are just old and boring.

 

[FordTechOne]

Power, comfort, looks (inside and out), technology, off road cred, literally everything... Tundra is reliable, but that doesn't make everything else unreliable

That's the straw that breaks the camel's back...Tundra has nothing, and yet it's not even "reliable" in the least

https://www.tundras.com/threads/cam-shaft-tower-seal-leaking-please-read.20102/page-3

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a1857861/toyota-will-settle-truck-frame-rust-suit-suit-34-billion/

This is one of Ford's most basic durability tests - codename "Silver Creek"...the Tundra fails miserably, resulting in the bed contacting the cab. Junk.

 

[Troutrad]

What is "nickel and dime" maintenance?

As a technician that has torn down everything from KIAs to Porsches, I still can't believe that Toyota is still riding on a reputation dating back to the 70's. Toyota is no more "reliable" than any other brand...in fact, they typically cost more to fix when they break. And they certainly do break, which is what pays my bills.

Certainly hasn’t been my experience. 2000 Tundra and 1989 4x4 both over 200k never had anything done to them except routine maintenance. Yeah, I know it’s totally anecdotal but just my experience. I love my Raptor but get the feeling from this forum that there seems to be more maintenance issues. So far I’ve had none, so maybe I’m just lucky with my trucks!!!