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<blockquote data-quote="Kanakry" data-source="post: 1221864" data-attributes="member: 5827"><p>***Real life situation of a mass produced car showing EMC problems from a multi Billion dollar company in the real world.</p><p></p><p></p><p>12 Tests vehicles are driving down I-75 in Flint, Michigan. While driving past Bishop Airport 10 of the 12 cars shut off almost instantly and the drivers coasted to the side of the road. The other 2 pulled over and backed up to see what the problem is.</p><p></p><p>All 10 cars reported that the Cluster was INOP. Fast forward 3 hours, I receive a phone call and looked on a map to where this issue was. The Radar for Bishop airport is very close to the Expressway. Through back channels a call was made from the OEM to the FAA to Bishop to switch to the other Radar array. </p><p></p><p>The moment they switched the cars cluster turned back on. They started and drove away.</p><p></p><p>This cluster had over 5000 hours of design into it. Passed Design Validation EMC testing. </p><p></p><p>So why did this happen?</p><p></p><p>Because the micro manufacture changed the chip design and it wasn't passed along. The clusters where then EMC tested again and all 12 failed. </p><p></p><p>Why didn't all 12 fail in the real world?</p><p></p><p>A lot of things effect EMC and the way it couples into the product. Placement of a cellphone on the dash or the use of a Walkie Talkie for instance can drastically change how a product performs. Possibly the wiring harness was routed slightly differently.</p><p></p><p>A 4w Baofang radio on high outputs roughly 500 v/m at .5M from the antenna. The Radar Pulse test for non saftey equipment is only 300 v/m. Up until 5 years ago no one really tested for these scenarios of cell phones and Walkie Talkies. But now they do, ISO-11452-9.</p><p></p><p>In the end the problem was solved and there are over 1 Million of these clusters on the road today.</p><p></p><p>Adding something to the Throttle position system isn't the same as adding a K&N Intake, supercharger or even a tune. None of those things have the ability to falsely manipulate the signal or heavily distort it in a High RF Environment. With enough RF energy and Pulse packets the device would think that you are on the gas when you are not. Its how this workings. All you need is a source (RF) a victim(PCB in line, pedal thing) and a effective antenna(PCB trace, wire something to couple to).</p><p></p><p></p><p>1 sample of 1 product from Design to Release for Automotive EMC testing alone, not electrical or environmental is over $35k.</p><p></p><p>Im not saying that the PC did or didn't have testing(that is just a small piece, just because it was tested doesn't mean it passed) or did or didn't pass. I am here just relaying the real world issues it can cause.</p><p></p><p>Also just because you test and pass EMC doesn't mean that your product is a good product. EMC is how it interacts with the RF world nothing about how it preforms under normal conditions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kanakry, post: 1221864, member: 5827"] ***Real life situation of a mass produced car showing EMC problems from a multi Billion dollar company in the real world. 12 Tests vehicles are driving down I-75 in Flint, Michigan. While driving past Bishop Airport 10 of the 12 cars shut off almost instantly and the drivers coasted to the side of the road. The other 2 pulled over and backed up to see what the problem is. All 10 cars reported that the Cluster was INOP. Fast forward 3 hours, I receive a phone call and looked on a map to where this issue was. The Radar for Bishop airport is very close to the Expressway. Through back channels a call was made from the OEM to the FAA to Bishop to switch to the other Radar array. The moment they switched the cars cluster turned back on. They started and drove away. This cluster had over 5000 hours of design into it. Passed Design Validation EMC testing. So why did this happen? Because the micro manufacture changed the chip design and it wasn't passed along. The clusters where then EMC tested again and all 12 failed. Why didn't all 12 fail in the real world? A lot of things effect EMC and the way it couples into the product. Placement of a cellphone on the dash or the use of a Walkie Talkie for instance can drastically change how a product performs. Possibly the wiring harness was routed slightly differently. A 4w Baofang radio on high outputs roughly 500 v/m at .5M from the antenna. The Radar Pulse test for non saftey equipment is only 300 v/m. Up until 5 years ago no one really tested for these scenarios of cell phones and Walkie Talkies. But now they do, ISO-11452-9. In the end the problem was solved and there are over 1 Million of these clusters on the road today. Adding something to the Throttle position system isn't the same as adding a K&N Intake, supercharger or even a tune. None of those things have the ability to falsely manipulate the signal or heavily distort it in a High RF Environment. With enough RF energy and Pulse packets the device would think that you are on the gas when you are not. Its how this workings. All you need is a source (RF) a victim(PCB in line, pedal thing) and a effective antenna(PCB trace, wire something to couple to). 1 sample of 1 product from Design to Release for Automotive EMC testing alone, not electrical or environmental is over $35k. Im not saying that the PC did or didn't have testing(that is just a small piece, just because it was tested doesn't mean it passed) or did or didn't pass. I am here just relaying the real world issues it can cause. Also just because you test and pass EMC doesn't mean that your product is a good product. EMC is how it interacts with the RF world nothing about how it preforms under normal conditions. [/QUOTE]
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