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Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods
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<blockquote data-quote="digscruze" data-source="post: 1585174" data-attributes="member: 39932"><p>Same, glad we found each other lol! You have no idea how bad that ticking noise was driving me crazy.</p><p>I also running a tune (MPT) + aftermarket IC so I feel that this is better than the stock solution while affording some of the advantages of a mechanical valve.</p><p></p><p>I wasn't too sure about pulling the plug until I reached out and spoke to their engineer. Who provided me with some solid answers. The fact that they provide detailed knowledge and have other solid products really sold me on their company. Feel free to reach out to them if you have any questions.</p><p></p><p>These were some of the ones i asked and their response from one of their engineers.</p><p></p><p>---------------------------------------------------------------</p><p><strong>I asked about the TS EM BOV and how their product compares to the TS one</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>1. I’m not 100% across how the EM series of valves works. I’ve had a bit of a look at it but it’s hard to tell how it will work in use without seeing it on the car. I do know that a lot of the design must have been targeted at getting around the patent we have on the DV+ and VTA valves. This may have meant that they weren’t able to get the design they actually wanted. This is all just speculation though.</p><p></p><p>The VTA works in a similar way to the factory valve but with one major change. The factory valve uses a diaphragm/piston design with holes through the middle. This means that the boost pressure pushes the valve closed. The solenoid then magnetically pulls the valve open and allows the air to vent out the side. This is a nice tidy design because it’s pressure balanced and the valve will always stay closed. The only issues are that the valve is directly controlled by the solenoid. The closing of the valve is only related to the ECU control, not how much pressure the valve needs to vent, AND the valve being quite large slows the valves operation.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The VTA uses a pilot actuation system, where instead of the piston being pulled open by the solenoid, a much smaller plunger is used. When the plunger opens it vents the pressure behind the piston, and the piston slams open. The plunger can be much smaller and lighter than the piston so it opens very quickly. Additionally the valve itself can now begin to close before the ECU tells it to. Once the pressure drops to a certain level, the secondary spring behind the piston will begin to close it, regardless of what the solenoid is doing.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Closing the valve earlier retains some boost pressure in the intercooler and improves throttle response when coming off and on the throttle.</p><p></p><p><strong>How the ECU works and if the ECU operation for the BOV can be manipulated w/ a tune:</strong></p><p></p><p>2. The ECU will trigger the valve to open any time the actual throttle closes faster than that rate. With modern fly by wire systems, the actual throttle isn’t necessarily doing what the pedal tells it to. I suppose it may be possible to change the values that the ECU determines should open the valve. That’s probably a conversation you’d need to have with your tuner though. Using any kind of electronic control will have the same result, it’s all triggered by the ECU. The only way you could remove this ECU control would be to use a traditional pneumatically actuated valve and remove the solenoid completely.</p><p></p><p><strong>Advantage of using an electric vs mechanical BOV on our trucks:</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>3. Traditional valves do definitely still have that place, however on cars that were designed to use electronic control it does tend to be a better idea to retain that control. Firstly, electronically controlled valves tend to open much quicker than traditional valves. Another overlooked factor is that the ECU is programmed to operate the valve based on a whole bunch of different sensors. A traditional valve is only related to manifold vacuum, so depending how it’s set up, there may be situations where it doesn’t open and you get a bit of flutter OR it may open for too long and ruin throttle response. These are all pretty subtle advantages but to me the main thing is that the conventional BOV kits require tapping into manifold vacuum, tricking the ECU into thinking the solenoid is working and just tend to be a lot more fiddly with all these adaptors and plugs.</p><p></p><p><strong>Aftermarket compatibility</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>4. The VTA will work on any aftermarket intercooler that uses the factory style fitting. We actually became aware of potential issues like that during the design phase. We saw some concern from workshops with aftermarket valves and even the stock valve not pulling up tight and potentially leaking. This led us to re-design the inlet to include a second O-ring that seals on the taper as well as one that sits in the bore. These two contact points keep the valve nice and tight.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="digscruze, post: 1585174, member: 39932"] Same, glad we found each other lol! You have no idea how bad that ticking noise was driving me crazy. I also running a tune (MPT) + aftermarket IC so I feel that this is better than the stock solution while affording some of the advantages of a mechanical valve. I wasn't too sure about pulling the plug until I reached out and spoke to their engineer. Who provided me with some solid answers. The fact that they provide detailed knowledge and have other solid products really sold me on their company. Feel free to reach out to them if you have any questions. These were some of the ones i asked and their response from one of their engineers. --------------------------------------------------------------- [B]I asked about the TS EM BOV and how their product compares to the TS one [/B] 1. I’m not 100% across how the EM series of valves works. I’ve had a bit of a look at it but it’s hard to tell how it will work in use without seeing it on the car. I do know that a lot of the design must have been targeted at getting around the patent we have on the DV+ and VTA valves. This may have meant that they weren’t able to get the design they actually wanted. This is all just speculation though. The VTA works in a similar way to the factory valve but with one major change. The factory valve uses a diaphragm/piston design with holes through the middle. This means that the boost pressure pushes the valve closed. The solenoid then magnetically pulls the valve open and allows the air to vent out the side. This is a nice tidy design because it’s pressure balanced and the valve will always stay closed. The only issues are that the valve is directly controlled by the solenoid. The closing of the valve is only related to the ECU control, not how much pressure the valve needs to vent, AND the valve being quite large slows the valves operation. The VTA uses a pilot actuation system, where instead of the piston being pulled open by the solenoid, a much smaller plunger is used. When the plunger opens it vents the pressure behind the piston, and the piston slams open. The plunger can be much smaller and lighter than the piston so it opens very quickly. Additionally the valve itself can now begin to close before the ECU tells it to. Once the pressure drops to a certain level, the secondary spring behind the piston will begin to close it, regardless of what the solenoid is doing. Closing the valve earlier retains some boost pressure in the intercooler and improves throttle response when coming off and on the throttle. [B]How the ECU works and if the ECU operation for the BOV can be manipulated w/ a tune:[/B] 2. The ECU will trigger the valve to open any time the actual throttle closes faster than that rate. With modern fly by wire systems, the actual throttle isn’t necessarily doing what the pedal tells it to. I suppose it may be possible to change the values that the ECU determines should open the valve. That’s probably a conversation you’d need to have with your tuner though. Using any kind of electronic control will have the same result, it’s all triggered by the ECU. The only way you could remove this ECU control would be to use a traditional pneumatically actuated valve and remove the solenoid completely. [B]Advantage of using an electric vs mechanical BOV on our trucks: [/B] 3. Traditional valves do definitely still have that place, however on cars that were designed to use electronic control it does tend to be a better idea to retain that control. Firstly, electronically controlled valves tend to open much quicker than traditional valves. Another overlooked factor is that the ECU is programmed to operate the valve based on a whole bunch of different sensors. A traditional valve is only related to manifold vacuum, so depending how it’s set up, there may be situations where it doesn’t open and you get a bit of flutter OR it may open for too long and ruin throttle response. These are all pretty subtle advantages but to me the main thing is that the conventional BOV kits require tapping into manifold vacuum, tricking the ECU into thinking the solenoid is working and just tend to be a lot more fiddly with all these adaptors and plugs. [B]Aftermarket compatibility [/B] 4. The VTA will work on any aftermarket intercooler that uses the factory style fitting. We actually became aware of potential issues like that during the design phase. We saw some concern from workshops with aftermarket valves and even the stock valve not pulling up tight and potentially leaking. This led us to re-design the inlet to include a second O-ring that seals on the taper as well as one that sits in the bore. These two contact points keep the valve nice and tight. [/QUOTE]
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GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums
Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods
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