Raptor Sales Alltime Low

[Craigy]

Trimmell, you’re thinking monochromatically. If you want a decent off road machine with legit cred and no bells and whistles but what you actually want - a garage door opener, spec out an 800A, and get an aftermarket opener.

Ford does not have a corner on the market for technology. I didn’t want the tech package, graphics, bed liner, and I’d have been fine without the moon roof but seeing what you lot had to go through to score a reasonable deal, and not having a wealth of local options out there without ADM, I took the MSRP deal with more options than I wanted. I found a few 801A trucks, but I only found 3 out of 120 in a 100 mile radius of my address less than $60k.

The reality is not what the consumers want it to be; the Raptors sell at Ford’s price points. Greedy dealers do sit on the trucks, but at Ford’s prices point the trucks sell.

I agree with you, $9K for an option package is quite a bit high and I don’t personally like it, but... the market supports it. Cloth seats, bench seats, rear seat delete are ok for non daily drivers, but I’ve had enough cars, trucks and bikes I had to “tough it out” with. I would have chosen fewer options, but the market didn’t really facilitate that, leaving the remaining lesser optioned vehicles for as much money as an 802 because the dealers know they can get away with charging ADM in most of the urban markets.

I wouldn’t classify this as Ford being greedy, so much as I would say it is Ford knowing the market place and knowing what they can reasonably charge. Trucks with 20K ADM are not moving. Trucks at MSRP are moving. We can’t reasonably expect Ford to offer the ’17 at ’14 prices, or even ’14 prices plus inflation and increased COL. They have to amortize research, development, testing, more testing, regulatory compliance, more testing etc.

There are some dealers out there thinking they have more than they do. Some who are shady, less than honorable brokers, and I think greedy may be an accurate description. However there are others out there selling at MSRP or just over and selling trucks like krispy kermes at a cop convention. It’s hard work being a diligent consumer.

All good points.

Obviously these trucks move at MSRP, even optioned up. And Ford knows they will. And even at mid $60s I think the Raptor is a great truck and still want to own one. But I'm willing to wait and see.

But it is just really cheesy, disingenuous to price it the way they do. Ford wanted to cash in on the Raptor (which they have every right to do) but they wanted to also technically keep a similar base MSRP to the last gen so they could act like they didn't crank up the pricetag.

So their solution is to set it up where you have to add $10k, $15k to get basic modern amenities that you expect when spending this much on a truck. Stand-alone options at a reasonable price and standard features on every other trim F150 are simply not available on Raptor. Don't check a very expensive box on your $55k truck and Ford sticks you with a you-cheaped-out tiny screen on the dash. And guess what, as a result, almost every new Raptor is well over $60k.

Again they'll still sell a ton of trucks, but they've moved Raptor substantially upmarket, practically from blue collar to white collar, and eventually sales won't be as good. It is what it is.

 

[KTMRC8]

The POINT is you should be able to add very basic shit as options to a low spec'd truck if you so choose. I was using the garage door opener as an example. Since that is specifically complained about on this forum more than most of the others from people that want the option but don't want to buy the 802. Pretty common. Its not about making a special package. It is about allowing people to add basic options included in most other vehicles to the truck of their choosing. If you're not smart enough to understand something so simple, then nothing will help you. Keep trying to look cool.

Not trying to look cool, just trying to explain basic production principles to someone who clearly doesn't understand production. You are essentially asking for Ford to make a million different potential configurations (which will delay the already lagging production process) to satisfy a few customers that don't want the 802 package...It's OK, you aren't getting a new Raptor, we get it...

 

[Craigy]

Not trying to look cool, just trying to explain basic production principles to someone who clearly doesn't understand production. You are essentially asking for Ford to make a million different potential configurations (which will delay the already lagging production process) to satisfy a few customers that don't want the 802 package...It's OK, you aren't getting a new Raptor, we get it...

Nah you're trying to be an internet cool guy. "Someone who clearly doesn't understand production" is webforum coolguy speak.

Also, in case you were unaware, Ford offers over a billion different potential configurations for the F150, which is the best selling car in America. So your argument is BS, by a factor of about a thousand. There Are Over 1 Billion Potential F-150 Configuration Options - Ford-Trucks.com

 

[photoneffect]

All good points.

Obviously these trucks move at MSRP, even optioned up. And Ford knows they will. And even at mid $60s I think the Raptor is a great truck and still want to own one. But I'm willing to wait and see.

But it is just really cheesy, disingenuous to price it the way they do. Ford wanted to cash in on the Raptor (which they have every right to do) but they wanted to also technically keep a similar base MSRP to the last gen so they could act like they didn't crank up the pricetag.

So their solution is to set it up where you have to add $10k, $15k to get basic modern amenities that you expect when spending this much on a truck. Stand-alone options at a reasonable price and standard features on every other trim F150 are simply not available on Raptor. Don't check a very expensive box on your $55k truck and Ford sticks you with a you-cheaped-out tiny screen on the dash. And guess what, as a result, almost every new Raptor is well over $60k.

Again they'll still sell a ton of trucks, but they've moved Raptor substantially upmarket, practically from blue collar to white collar, and eventually sales won't be as good. It is what it is.

But see that's just it. If they had added all these options as standard then everyone would have just complained how they don't want the added weight of a garage door opener or whatever because it interferes with their approach angle. People will complain no matter what.

I just do not understand why people keep looking back at the Gen 1. It was a completely different truck and it's gone now. The pricing and everything else is irrelevant.

And I suspect you're probably wrong about sales not being as good. I'd imagine they'll be as good or better and at higher prices and margins for Ford. Only time will really tell.

 

[KTMRC8]

Nah you're trying to be an internet cool guy. "Someone who clearly doesn't understand production" is webforum coolguy speak.

Also, in case you were unaware, Ford offers over a billion different potential configurations for the F150, which is the best selling car in America. So your argument is BS, by a factor of about a thousand. There Are Over 1 Billion Potential F-150 Configuration Options - Ford-Trucks.com

I'm actually trying to keep my cool vs be cool...Haha

Quick question...How many options does a GT350 or Focus RS have, vs their non performance counter parts?

Typically (and statistics will back this up) when a person buys a flagship vehicle, they aren't pinching pennies or complaining about too much or too little in a package. They are typically willing to pay the price for the packages, that often times includes items they don't need. The overall sales numbers prove that formula for flagship vehicles seems to be working...

 

[smurfslayer]

I'm actually trying to keep my cool vs be cool...Haha

Quick question...How many options does a GT350 or Focus RS have, vs their non performance counter parts?

Typically (and statistics will back this up) when a person buys a flagship vehicle, they aren't pinching pennies or complaining about too much or too little in a package. They are typically willing to pay the price for the packages, that often times includes items they don't need. The overall sales numbers prove that formula for flagship vehicles seems to be working...

RC, I hear you and as internet cool as you are, Trimmell’s point is legit - ford’s configurator will illustrate some of the “you must select the 9,000 dollar 802a package to get the mighty widget option” for a couple of selections. I understand Ford has to make a profit, and keep costs reasonable but some added flexibility for some of the stuff wouldn’t - or shouldn’t be that cost prohibitive or disruptive. I don’t buy into all of T’s lamentations but from the consumer point of view, some of the options present a bit of frustration in the ordering regard. I don’t see breaking out 802A into some smaller optioned packages as being that awful bad.

[he types hypocritically, while considering that Lucille is only missing 2 or 3 available options]

Consumers will find something to complain about no matter what the manufacturer does.

 

[KTMRC8]

RC, I hear you and as internet cool as you are, Trimmell’s point is legit - ford’s configurator will illustrate some of the “you must select the 9,000 dollar 802a package to get the mighty widget option” for a couple of selections. I understand Ford has to make a profit, and keep costs reasonable but some added flexibility for some of the stuff wouldn’t - or shouldn’t be that cost prohibitive or disruptive. I don’t buy into all of T’s lamentations but from the consumer point of view, some of the options present a bit of frustration in the ordering regard. I don’t see breaking out 802A into some smaller optioned packages as being that awful bad.

[he types hypocritically, while considering that Lucille is only missing 2 or 3 available options]

Consumers will find something to complain about no matter what the manufacturer does.

My point is, Ford can easily sell the 802 packages, so from a production standpoint, it makes perfect sense. Now if they were not selling the 802 easily, you can damn well bet they would breakout the 802 options into individual choices, but they aren't having trouble selling them, and to cater to the minority would be a poor business model.

Again...look at my flagship comparison...it isn't just the Raptor for which they do this...it's every flagship model.

 

[hkguns]

Well this certainly went off the rails.

So if I get this correct, it is actually Ford's fault the Raptor is actually selling really well and most people are buying the 802a package?

Oh boy.

 

[Monsoon Chopper]

There is a dealer on youtube showing the invoice of a fully optioned truck. Dealer is already making $5000 selling at MSRP also there is $2000 holdback. They would still make $2000 grand if they sold at near invoice. Greedy Fockers. I live in the middle of Arizona and have yet to see one in person either on the road or at a dealer.

Only dealer in AZ that was selling at MSRP was Sanderson Ford in Glendale, which of course they sold them all out quickly. I was on a waiting list for a couple weeks, before I looked around and bought mine for MSRP in Ft. Worth, TX. Drove out there in my Land Rover and drove my Raptor home the next day. Great way to break it in!

 

[Aaron]

Only dealer in AZ that was selling at MSRP was Sanderson Ford in Glendale, which of course they sold them all out quickly. I was on a waiting list for a couple weeks, before I looked around and bought mine for MSRP in Ft. Worth, TX. Drove out there in my Land Rover and drove my Raptor home the next day. Great way to break it in!

Lawley in Sierra Vista had a couple, from what I understand they ended up selling with a $10k ADM, but the day I went in there they still had a LB 801A SCrew and they were perfectly willing to sell at sticker if I bought that day.