Help!!! W.O.T. rattle/noise at 5200 rpm, Second Lemon Law

[FordTechOne]

From my understanding yes. When in 2wd there is vacuum keeping the iwe from engaging at the hub. In 4wd the vacuum is released and the hubs are engaged. The issue with the check valve could be leaking and loosing vacuum while in 2wd causing the hubs to try and engage. Ie the grinding noise. So a bad check valve could cause your iwe to intermittently try to engage due to not holding vacuum.


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Correct.

 

[Monster]

A month or so ago my 2017 had some brief rattle sound around 50 or 60 mph on a wide open throttle run. Did it both times I floored it that day.

It is not my daily driver and I haven’t got on it like that since. After reading this thread I want to test it out again, and also try 4A. I fully expect it to make the sound. It sounded like a rattle in the engine, not a hub grinding.

 

[raptoragecar]

That is a reply from the Ford Technical Assistance Center (TAC). TAC is there to assist technicians with diagnostics/repairs and to forward engineering issues up the chain. The person responding is not the person who designed the system; they are there to assist the dealer with the repair and only engage engineering when necessary. Since the dealer said the noise "comes from the rear", that would not be IWEs. The dealer also stated that they road tested a similar vehicle and it made the same noise...at that point they need to call it normal, because they have to assume the noise being described is a characteristic. Otherwise, there are dealers who will throw parts at a noise even though it's 100% normal. That is not a well written inquiry to TAC.

The 2019 F-150's were updated with an improved IWE strategy that actually keeps the hubs engaged when cold to prevent partial engagement from low engine vacuum during startup. Depending on temperature, the hubs may not disengage for up to 2 miles. With yours having an issue after being warm, there is a definite vacuum leak.

The TAC inquiry from your dealer shows that they did not do their due diligence. Before contacting TAC, they are supposed to perform Workshop Diagnostics. Does this look like it describes your concern?

View attachment 129668

There is an entire 12 Step diagnostic procedure to determine the fault. If your dealer can't do something that basic, I'd find a new one.

do you have the bulletin #?

 

[Donovan]

My first 2018 Raptor was reclaimed by Ford under California's Lemon Law after they could not fix the same wide open throttle, 2WD, 5200-5500 rpm, NOISE/RATTLE that happens while shifting from 3rd to 4th and 4th to 5th in the 50-75 mph range. Floor the truck allowing the transmission to shift when it wants to in 2WD only, and it makes the noise every time in the 50-75 mph range. Truck does not make the noise in 4WD. It took a year for Ford to build me a 2019 and deliver it. New Truck did not make the noise till 1500 miles. Now my 2019 makes the same exact noise and the local dealership had the truck for 2 weeks with absolutely no luck fixing it. The Area Field Technician has been involved the whole time. I am running 91 Octane Chevron gas and they do not feel that it is an engine detonation. Because the noise only happens in 2WD, The dealership thinks the problem is in the transfer case. The Dealership replaced every single part in the vacuum system that locks up the front wheels in 4WD TWICE in my 2018 and it did not fix it (yes the hubs to). They disconnected the vacuum lines to the hubs on my 2019 and it still makes the noise. 2019 Truck in going to a new dealership today for a fresh set of eyes to look at. They replaced the cheap vacuum lines and check valve twice on my 2018. They checked the wastegate in my 2019 for the rattle, and say it is tight. Any Ideas??? Would somebody please go run their GEN 2 raptor from a stand still to 75 mph in 2WD and reply if it makes the same noise (kinda sounds like engine detonation/ping). Any help would be greatly appreciated before I have to have a SECOND GEN 2 reclaimed under the Lemon Law. A California Raptor with 91 Octane would help when trying to compare apples to apples just in case it is detonation.

I have a similair issue. Same MPH that you're stating. Sounds like rattling cans or rattling metal clanging and banging, then just goes away after 10 seconds of continuous noise. Does this sound about right?

 

[FordTechOne]

A month or so ago my 2017 had some brief rattle sound around 50 or 60 mph on a wide open throttle run. Did it both times I floored it that day.

It is not my daily driver and I haven’t got on it like that since. After reading this thread I want to test it out again, and also try 4A. I fully expect it to make the sound. It sounded like a rattle in the engine, not a hub grinding.

Having diagnosed and repaired this issue, partially engaged IWEs (hubs) make a rattle sound. In fact, I have seen technicians misdiagnose the vehicle as having a timing chain rattle when in fact it was the IWEs. One tech even replaced the timing chain, tensioners, and phasers thinking that it was the engine. I drove it and immediately confirmed my suspicions; IWE noise. It was simply a bad check valve.

 

[FordTechOne]

do you have the bulletin #?

The screen clipping I posted is not a bulletin; it's a Workshop Manual Pinpoint Test. It's literally a published procedure that the dealership should have followed to diagnose the issue in the first place.

The Pinpoint Test is located in the Workshop Manual as follows:

2019 F-150 > Section 308-07A Four Wheel Drive Systems > Diagnosis and Testing > Symptom Chart > The front axle makes noise in 2H mode only and generally under heavy throttle > Pinpoint Test F.

 

[FordTechOne]

I have a similair issue. Same MPH that you're stating. Sounds like rattling cans or rattling metal clanging and banging, then just goes away after 10 seconds of continuous noise. Does this sound about right?

Sounds like an IWE noise. 2013-2018 models fall under TSB 18-2273, which provides a directed procedure to allow the technician isolate the vacuum issue. The TSB also includes a new TCCM calibration for 2017/2018 models built on or before 17-Sept-2018.

 

[Westy737]

Sounds like an IWE noise. 2013-2018 models fall under TSB 18-2273, which provides a directed procedure to allow the technician isolate the vacuum issue. The TSB also includes a new TCCM calibration for 2017/2018 models built on or before 17-Sept-2018.

FordTechOne- Thank you very much for staying engaged on this issue. There is no possible way that there isn't more people out there scratching there head about what is wrong with their truck. At least now there is some really good information for them to help solve the problem. I am still waiting for the dealership to get back to me on whether or not they performed 308-07A on my 2019.

 

[-Ryan-]

I had this noise for a little while. Drove around in 4A until I could get it to the dealer but by that time it had stopped and hasn't come back. I bought the check valve part but never replaced it, waiting for the noise to come back first.

 

[Donovan]

Sounds like an IWE noise. 2013-2018 models fall under TSB 18-2273, which provides a directed procedure to allow the technician isolate the vacuum issue. The TSB also includes a new TCCM calibration for 2017/2018 models built on or before 17-Sept-2018.

I will let my dealer know... Assuming covered under warranty with 21k miles.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10149748-9999.pdf