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GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums
Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods
California E85 on Stock Gen2 (is it a FFV)?
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<blockquote data-quote="COBB Tuning" data-source="post: 1559957" data-attributes="member: 30143"><p>A lot of good info already posted, but one more thing that is valuable to know: flex fuel =/= running E85. </p><p></p><p>A true flex fuel vehicle will be able to detect and adjust engine operation for varying percentages of ethanol found in the gas tank, either through the use of an ethanol content sensor or through sensor-less software on the ECU that infers ethanol content based on fuel trims (feedback from the O2 sensors) and sometimes also inferred octane (feedback from knock sensors). The reason why this is so important has to do with the fuel chemistry differences between normal pump gas and ethanol - most importantly the difference in stoichiometric AFR. On top of this, lower percentage ethanol blends will have lower knock thresholds and will require less ignition timing advance than would be allowable on higher percentages. Since (as was previously mentioned in this thread) ethanol content of "E85" can legally vary between 51% and 85% ethanol by volume, it is extremely valuable for the ECU to know as accurately as possible the exact percentage of ethanol in the fuel system.</p><p></p><p>The challenge for the aftermarket is integrating a way to measure ethanol content of the fuel into the stock ECU and wiring harness. Usually (if not always), a vehicle manufacturer will not leave unused portions of the wiring harness just lying around the engine bay that can return data back to the ECU. So, the aftermarket has to get creative with a way to get an ethanol content sensor signal back to the ECU. Sometimes, you can substitute an ECA in place of a low-impact sensor already on the vehicle - this is how Cobb integrates the ECA into our Subaru flex fuel systems by hijacking the harness input that is factory designated for the TGV position sensors. In other applications there aren't any easy or low-impact substitutions, so other solutions are required - this drove the development of our CAN Gateway module for the R35 GTR platform that sandwiches into the main engine harness to add a CAN-based ECA (and other configurable sensor data) into the stock wiring harness.</p><p></p><p>What solution will pan out to be best for the Raptor/F150 platform is still unclear, but it's definitely a long term goal for us as a company. The use of a sensor-less system definitely has its appeal to avoid the implementation challenges described above, but tends to have a significantly larger margin of error in terms of inferred vs. actual ethanol content - not great when trying to extract the most safe power out of your engine.</p><p></p><p>In the short term, for those looking to take advantage of the power benefits and low fuel costs of ethanol, here is what I recommend (and am doing with my personal vehicle): buy a "standalone" ethanol content sensor from a company like Fuel-It that uses bluetooth to communicate with your phone. Then, work with your tuner to develop a few calibrations to switch between based on the measured ethanol content shown by that sensor. Our software can easily be used to generate calibrations for E10, E20, E30, E40, E50, etc., with as much resolution of ethanol content as you may want. If you fill up with a half tank of "E85", and your ethanol content sensor shows that the final ethanol content passing through the fuel lines is 48%, you can quickly reflash to your E50 map. If the sensor reports 33%, you can flash to the E30 map; etc. With short 30-60 second flashes with the Accessport, the bluetooth ethanol sensor, and quality calibrations from your tuner, you can effectively make your truck into a flex fuel vehicle right now. Hopefully in the future, we can make things even easier.</p><p></p><p>Hope this helps to clarify some of the ethanol lingo!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="COBB Tuning, post: 1559957, member: 30143"] A lot of good info already posted, but one more thing that is valuable to know: flex fuel =/= running E85. A true flex fuel vehicle will be able to detect and adjust engine operation for varying percentages of ethanol found in the gas tank, either through the use of an ethanol content sensor or through sensor-less software on the ECU that infers ethanol content based on fuel trims (feedback from the O2 sensors) and sometimes also inferred octane (feedback from knock sensors). The reason why this is so important has to do with the fuel chemistry differences between normal pump gas and ethanol - most importantly the difference in stoichiometric AFR. On top of this, lower percentage ethanol blends will have lower knock thresholds and will require less ignition timing advance than would be allowable on higher percentages. Since (as was previously mentioned in this thread) ethanol content of "E85" can legally vary between 51% and 85% ethanol by volume, it is extremely valuable for the ECU to know as accurately as possible the exact percentage of ethanol in the fuel system. The challenge for the aftermarket is integrating a way to measure ethanol content of the fuel into the stock ECU and wiring harness. Usually (if not always), a vehicle manufacturer will not leave unused portions of the wiring harness just lying around the engine bay that can return data back to the ECU. So, the aftermarket has to get creative with a way to get an ethanol content sensor signal back to the ECU. Sometimes, you can substitute an ECA in place of a low-impact sensor already on the vehicle - this is how Cobb integrates the ECA into our Subaru flex fuel systems by hijacking the harness input that is factory designated for the TGV position sensors. In other applications there aren't any easy or low-impact substitutions, so other solutions are required - this drove the development of our CAN Gateway module for the R35 GTR platform that sandwiches into the main engine harness to add a CAN-based ECA (and other configurable sensor data) into the stock wiring harness. What solution will pan out to be best for the Raptor/F150 platform is still unclear, but it's definitely a long term goal for us as a company. The use of a sensor-less system definitely has its appeal to avoid the implementation challenges described above, but tends to have a significantly larger margin of error in terms of inferred vs. actual ethanol content - not great when trying to extract the most safe power out of your engine. In the short term, for those looking to take advantage of the power benefits and low fuel costs of ethanol, here is what I recommend (and am doing with my personal vehicle): buy a "standalone" ethanol content sensor from a company like Fuel-It that uses bluetooth to communicate with your phone. Then, work with your tuner to develop a few calibrations to switch between based on the measured ethanol content shown by that sensor. Our software can easily be used to generate calibrations for E10, E20, E30, E40, E50, etc., with as much resolution of ethanol content as you may want. If you fill up with a half tank of "E85", and your ethanol content sensor shows that the final ethanol content passing through the fuel lines is 48%, you can quickly reflash to your E50 map. If the sensor reports 33%, you can flash to the E30 map; etc. With short 30-60 second flashes with the Accessport, the bluetooth ethanol sensor, and quality calibrations from your tuner, you can effectively make your truck into a flex fuel vehicle right now. Hopefully in the future, we can make things even easier. Hope this helps to clarify some of the ethanol lingo! [/QUOTE]
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GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums
Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods
California E85 on Stock Gen2 (is it a FFV)?
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