Go Back   FORD RAPTOR FORUM - Ford SVT Raptor Forums - Ford Raptor > GEN 2 (2017+) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums > Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods - 3.5 Liter EcoBoost V6 [GEN 2]
Become a Supporting Member         Become a Supporting Vendor

Register to remove these ads.


Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods - 3.5 Liter EcoBoost V6 [GEN 2]

Burger Motorsports JB4 tuner install


This is a discussion on Burger Motorsports JB4 tuner install within the Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods - 3.5 Liter EcoBoost V6 [GEN 2] forums, part of the GEN 2 (2017+) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums category!
Originally Posted by Onemoosehorn Interesting... I hope I'm wrong. If Ford isn't monitoring it and recording maximum levels, I would ...


User Tag List

Like Tree8Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-11-2018, 07:16 PM   #31 (permalink)
 
cayenne's Avatar
Full Access Member

 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Windsor, CO
Posts: 359
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)

Default
Originally Posted by Onemoosehorn View Post
Interesting...
I hope I'm wrong. If Ford isn't monitoring it and recording maximum levels, I would run out and buy one now. They are a great product in my opinion.

Just to clarify my concern, I personally didn't run into 3 different engine issues on my BMW's running the JB4. I was trying to explain that all 3 models I owned had examples of owners that indicated BMW could see the max boost recorded if Germany had to investigate a blown engine or trans... If you are interested in further reading this issue has been discussed at LENGTH over on all the BMW forums. The issues has nothing to do with Burger Tuning's product, but is related to any tune that exceeds the factory boost levels. Nearly all Euro manufactures records that max boost, would be awesome if Ford didn't at this time.






__________________
GONE - 2012 Silver SCrew

GONE - 2014 Roush Ruby Red SE SCrew

2017 Lightning Blue SCrew
cayenne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2018, 07:41 PM   #32 (permalink)
Full Access Member

 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)

Default
Originally Posted by cayenne View Post
I hope I'm wrong. If Ford isn't monitoring it and recording maximum levels, I would run out and buy one now. They are a great product in my opinion.

Just to clarify my concern, I personally didn't run into 3 different engine issues on my BMW's running the JB4. I was trying to explain that all 3 models I owned had examples of owners that indicated BMW could see the max boost recorded if Germany had to investigate a blown engine or trans... If you are interested in further reading this issue has been discussed at LENGTH over on all the BMW forums. The issues has nothing to do with Burger Tuning's product, but is related to any tune that exceeds the factory boost levels. Nearly all Euro manufactures records that max boost, would be awesome if Ford didn't at this time.


I have been looking at a similiar unit that increases boost in a similiar manner. I would love to know if ford can record this.
Onemoosehorn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 09:42 AM   #33 (permalink)
 
halogrinder's Avatar
Full Access Member

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Age: 36
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)

(Thread Starter)
Default
Originally Posted by cayenne View Post
I hope I'm wrong. If Ford isn't monitoring it and recording maximum levels, I would run out and buy one now. They are a great product in my opinion.

Just to clarify my concern, I personally didn't run into 3 different engine issues on my BMW's running the JB4. I was trying to explain that all 3 models I owned had examples of owners that indicated BMW could see the max boost recorded if Germany had to investigate a blown engine or trans... If you are interested in further reading this issue has been discussed at LENGTH over on all the BMW forums. The issues has nothing to do with Burger Tuning's product, but is related to any tune that exceeds the factory boost levels. Nearly all Euro manufactures records that max boost, would be awesome if Ford didn't at this time.



That's how a piggy back works though.
garbage in/mix it up/garbage out- the truck still thinks its making stock boost. There's only two pressure sensors, and the JB4 is manipulating them.



I am a BMW master tech, own a BMW/RR/euro shop, and am a BMS dealer. I've installed a ton (hundreds?) of JB4's and know them intimately.
I also worked at the BMW dealer for 11 years.
That's why the JB4 is a viable option to have- it cleanly comes on/off, and leaves no trace. Your just twisting some pixies, not altering a program like a flash tune.

at the end of the day, you have to pay to play. If you're *THAT* concerned over your warranty, leave your vehicle stock.
smurfslayer. likes this.
halogrinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 10:59 AM   #34 (permalink)
 
cayenne's Avatar
Full Access Member

 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Windsor, CO
Posts: 359
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)

Default
Originally Posted by halogrinder View Post
That's how a piggy back works though.
garbage in/mix it up/garbage out- the truck still thinks its making stock boost. There's only two pressure sensors, and the JB4 is manipulating them.



I am a BMW master tech, own a BMW/RR/euro shop, and am a BMS dealer. I've installed a ton (hundreds?) of JB4's and know them intimately.
I also worked at the BMW dealer for 11 years.
That's why the JB4 is a viable option to have- it cleanly comes on/off, and leaves no trace. Your just twisting some pixies, not altering a program like a flash tune.

at the end of the day, you have to pay to play. If you're *THAT* concerned over your warranty, leave your vehicle stock.
Yes, you have solid experience. Your shop has a good great reputation... Not debating that, I'm not a master tech, I'm just the guy that has written code for sectors of the OEM ECU applications, I know what the Euro world is looking at, but not sure about Ford. What the BMW dealer can see at the local level by examining the DTC and what Germany has access to through FASTA data or embedded log files are completely different.

Everything is a "maybe" and that is why you have to play. Just like you said, it depends on the level you are concerned about. That's why I asked if we knew what Ford logs.

I've been messing with the Burger products since the N54 days, even with the old JB+ products. The one thing I'm going to challenge is that the boost logs aren't seeing increased boost. Piggybacks are the best route to leave little to no trace, but when you are dealing with a turbo car, you are getting performance increase based on increased boost. I've never seen where Burger has stated that they are forcing or overwriting false/lower boost signal back into the embedded log files. That would be the only way to mask that you are running higher boost.

I have seen on the F chassis BMW where the log is recording boost above the threshold when a piggyback was used, it's just a risk that is there and we all have to be aware of. At the end of the day how this behaves on the BMW is likely irrelevant, I was inquiring how much we knew about the Ford derivative.


__________________
GONE - 2012 Silver SCrew

GONE - 2014 Roush Ruby Red SE SCrew

2017 Lightning Blue SCrew
cayenne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 11:14 AM   #35 (permalink)
 
halogrinder's Avatar
Full Access Member

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Age: 36
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)

(Thread Starter)
Default
Originally Posted by cayenne View Post
Yes, you have solid experience. Your shop has a good great reputation... Not debating that, I'm not a master tech, I'm just the guy that has written code for sectors of the OEM ECU applications, I know what the Euro world is looking at, but not sure about Ford. What the BMW dealer can see at the local level by examining the DTC and what Germany has access to through FASTA data or embedded log files are completely different.

Everything is a "maybe" and that is why you have to play. Just like you said, it depends on the level you are concerned about. That's why I asked if we knew what Ford logs.

I've been messing with the Burger products since the N54 days, even with the old JB+ products. The one thing I'm going to challenge is that the boost logs aren't seeing increased boost. Piggybacks are the best route to leave little to no trace, but when you are dealing with a turbo car, you are getting performance increase based on increased boost. I've never seen where Burger has stated that they are forcing or overwriting false/lower boost signal back into the embedded log files. That would be the only way to mask that you are running higher boost.

I have seen on the F chassis BMW where the log is recording boost above the threshold when a piggyback was used, it's just a risk that is there and we all have to be aware of. At the end of the day how this behaves on the BMW is likely irrelevant, I was inquiring how much we knew about the Ford derivative.
Excellent response. I completely agree, dealers only get the tip of the iceberg on real data that comes out of the car VS what FASTA transmits. Heck, the data available in INPA vs ISTA is downright pitiful. Why wouldn't they let you see data of VANOS gears moving back and forth- its a telltale sign when you're running into VANOS codes, and is ultra easy to see.


And yes, we're getting off track goofing off with BMW stuff- when Ford stuff is completely different :D (although somewhat similar in DME/ECU stuff- kinda)
halogrinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 02:17 PM   #36 (permalink)
Junior Member

 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)

Default
So the way JB4 "tunes" the truck is different from say the MPT "tune"? Maybe less traceable? I'm very interested in doing something to my Raptor for more power.
yellowssm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 02:26 PM   #37 (permalink)
Member

 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)

Default
In the end, if or when you took your car in for a warranty repair, with the jb4 removed, and they did have logs that showed the boost was elevated beyond stock, how could they prove it was the fault of the jb4? I mean you could have a sticking wastegate actuator, or glitchy boost sensors that could also cause an overboost condition. Just saying. Pretty dificult to prove conclusively. Now if you do a software flash to the pcm, that leaves a permanent mark and an obvious one.
Sledgehammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2018, 05:00 PM   #38 (permalink)
 
cayenne's Avatar
Full Access Member

 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Windsor, CO
Posts: 359
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)

Default
@halogrinder You had to bring up that dirty word VANOS!

Brought back some bad memories for sure...


__________________
GONE - 2012 Silver SCrew

GONE - 2014 Roush Ruby Red SE SCrew

2017 Lightning Blue SCrew
cayenne is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Livernois Motorsports releases our Gen2 Raptor Tuner! Livernois Motorsports Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods - 3.5 Liter EcoBoost V6 [GEN 2] 29 01-10-2018 12:20 PM
Giant motorsports ddl kit install ntm Ford Raptor Suspension Discussion and Modifications Forum [GEN 1] 96 10-10-2017 10:36 PM
Livernois Motorsports & Engineering MyCal Split Personality tuner Livernois Motorsports Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods-6.2 Liter V8 [GEN 1] 2 03-12-2014 01:34 AM
Introducing the Livernois Motorsports Split Personality Tuner Livernois Motorsports Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods-6.2 Liter V8 [GEN 1] 18 08-20-2013 01:57 AM



GM Truck Forum
Chevy Tahoe Forum
Dodge Ram Forum
Chevy Cobalt Forum
Chevy Tahoe Forum
FJ Cruiser Forum
Ford Truck Forum
88-98 GM Truck Forum
73-87 Gm Truck Forum
Ford Expedition Forum
Chevy Equinox Forum
Chevy Cruze Forum
Jeep Liberty Forum
Jeep Forum
Dodge Ram SRT10 Forum
Chrysler 200 Forum
Scion xD Forum
Scion xB Forum
Dodge Challenger Forum
SRT Forum
Nissan Titan Forum
Buick Enclave Forum
Land Rover Forum
Scion FR-S Forum
TRD Forum
Central US Mopars
Southeast Mopars
Cadillac CTS Forum
Oklahoma Dodge Ram Club
Softball Forum