Is a basic k & n air filter worth it?

this is hilarious.

im glad to see not everyone has blindly drank the koolaid.

MTF said:

I will, I unlike you do look at both sides of the coin.
And I should have added that those guys and alot of Supercharged Raptor owners do run the pre filter sock over them as well when out in the desert, My bad.
And they still out preform the stock paper.
But that's ok, you do what you want and I'll do what I want.

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Please show me the other side of the coin you think you have found. I posted up a scientific test that shows K&N filters at the bottom of the barrel.

The ONLY time a K&N outflows paper is when brand new freshly cleaned. At that point it is also letting in 18 times the amount of dirt the paper filter is. Scientific testing proved this but I understand you are probably much smarter than the engineers that came up with the tests too....

---------- Post added at 07:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:56 AM ----------

AndysLog said:

this is hilarious.

im glad to see not everyone has blindly drank the koolaid.

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The human condition is absolutely amazing isn't it? Even when faced with being completely wrong, people tend to dig their heels in and try to defend the indefensible.

Instead of "wow, I wasn't aware that K&N was all marketing hype. I like my engine, I am going back to paper filters..."

We get "and they still out perform (fixed that for ya) paper"

Which is simply not true.

See, unlike you guys that think you know something new and then try to make it absolute, again, I on the other hand keep an open mind.
I don't just blindly jump on the band wagon to debunk a claim a manufacture makes.
Anybody can slightly change conditions to help debunk something, is all I'm claiming.
What in the heck is "test dust" ???? Some kind if material that will work for them to get the results they want. hummmmmm
They are using only 350 cfm air flow, really! Well my truck needs more than 4 times that!!!!!
And another thing, like those people that say they didn't see HP gains.
With the modern PCM, just changing the CAI and or just the filter element is not going give any significant gains if any.
You need a Tune!!! Plain and simple, you have to tell the PCM that more air flow is available. And that's the real Truth!!!
And that testing link you provided doesn't take real life condition into account, like driving in the rain or getting the paper wet puddle jumping.
I really don't want to buy a new high quality paper cartridge every two months, that's just crazy!
I'm more in line with this guy from S & B. (he stresses to importance of proper oiling!!!)
And he says a sock is an excellent choice when it's dusty conditions either oiled or paper, it's just common sense folks!!!
In any case either one will work if you do it right to protect your engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VYH2bNfdwI

MTF said:

See, unlike you guys that think you know something new and then try to make it absolute, again, I on the other hand keep an open mind.
I don't just blindly jump on the band wagon to debunk a claim a manufacture makes.

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No, you and I are much different that way. You are relying on manufacturers claims. I am relying on independent, engineer designed testing procedures.

Anybody can slightly change conditions to help debunk something, is all I'm claiming.
What in the heck is "test dust" ???? Some kind if material that will work for them to get the results they want. hummmmmm

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If you would have read the test, you would know what the dust is. It is standardized by the SAE for the purpose of comparison. Are you seriously suggesting that they designed dust to make the K&N appear to be the worst? It was a set up? They must have been in cahoots with GM to sell more Delco paper filters huh?

Probably not... K&N filters just suck, plain and simple.

They are using only 350 cfm air flow, really! Well my truck needs more than 4 times that!!!!!

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Only at max rpm full throttle which is how often honestly? Again it is a number chosen to standardize the test for comparison. 350 cfm is WAY more than your engine needs for any daily driving. Are you so concerned that the paper filter may steal that 2-3 hp you will never feel? Feed it dirt through a K&N and you will start loosing that power due to compression loss anyway...

You should also check your math. Unlikely your engine can process over 1400 cfm as you claim. Sounds good though, very dramatic.

And another thing, like those people that say they didn't see HP gains.
With the modern PCM, just changing the CAI and or just the filter element is not going give any significant gains if any.
You need a Tune!!! Plain and simple, you have to tell the PCM that more air flow is available. And that's the real Truth!!!

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You can not show me a "significant" gain from the simple change to a K&N from paper. I know K&N can with marketing literature but even so, a few hp in a 400 or 700 hp engine isn't worth feeding it dirt.

You are missing the fact that when it is cleanest is when it flows the most dirt. By the time the K&N plugs up with enough dirt to filter as well as the paper filter, it is now flowing LESS air than the paper filter. The K&N has 1/3 of the dirt holding capacity, plugged up three times faster than the paper.

And that testing link you provided doesn't take real life condition into account, like driving in the rain or getting the paper wet puddle jumping.
I really don't want to buy a new high quality paper cartridge every two months, that's just crazy!

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The tests where conducted at over 60% humidity, which should hurt the paper filters performance. It still stomped the K&N. I have never had a paper filter in a factory housing get wet, certainly not from puddles. I just buy a new one a couple of times a year, every two months? That is crazy since as previously mentioned and stated in the test, the paper filter holds three times the dirt, so you can go six months right? LOL

I'm more in line with this guy from S & B. (he stresses to importance of proper oiling!!!)
And he says a sock is an excellent choice when it's dusty conditions either oiled or paper, it's just common sense folks!!!
In any case either one will work if you do it right to protect your engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VYH2bNfdwI

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So no evidence that K&N is the bomb, I thought so. You did find more "informative" marketing info but seem to be having a very hard time with any evidence beyond that.


The real bottom line here is that there is not a better medium so readily available as the paper filter. They flow more than enough air for your engine. They filter out more dirt and last 3 times as long. They are cheap, and easy to replace. Keep it simple.

I'm not going to go crazy over this like you are.

I will just repeat myself again, I've been using oiled air filters for 25 years never saw dirt or dust in the intake tube.
I don't see a speck in my SC Raptor either, but again I properly maintain my filters.

You do make some funny statements though like a freshly clean oiled filter is when it lets the most dirt in.

And I don't believe this test results anyway but you go on......
I mean this test was done 14 years ago you really think this these companies haven't made vast improvements over the years.
Oil alone is why different now then 14 years ago.

Look at your own test thing your basing everything on, the K&N Flow rate drops faster than then, why do you think that is????
I check my filter when I know I've been driving in dirty conditions if the oil isn't shinny I drop a fresh one in, it's real simple.
It's not rocket science, like your making this deal seem.

Humidity is not driving in the rain my friend, with oils and antifreeze mixed in and who knows what else is dripping on the roads.

I could go on and on but at this point I don't really care what you have to say.

Good Luck

MTF said:

I'm not going to go crazy over this like you are.

I will just repeat myself again, I've been using oiled air filters for 25 years never saw dirt or dust in the intake tube.
I don't see a speck in my SC Raptor either, but again I properly maintain my filters.

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Somehow that is proof that no extra dirt is getting into your engine? I bet if you do oil analysis with and without the K&N you will find a big difference in the silicon content (sand) in your oil.

You do make some funny statements though like a freshly clean oiled filter is when it lets the most dirt in.

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Not sure what is funny. The more air the K&N flows, the more dirt that comes with it. That seems terribly simple...

And I don't believe this test results anyway but you go on......
I mean this test was done 14 years ago you really think this these companies haven't made vast improvements over the years.
Oil alone is why different now then 14 years ago.

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Honestly, I do not see any changes in K&N's product over the years. We had horrible luck with one just a couple years ago on a Dodge Cummins used in the dirt a lot. It was plugged weekly, that is retarded. The paper filter works fine for months. So no, I do not believe K&N has made huge strides. People fall for the sucker job all the time due to blind followers like you repeating the mantra in the face of clear evidence to the contrary.

Look at your own test thing your basing everything on, the K&N Flow rate drops faster than then, why do you think that is????
I check my filter when I know I've been driving in dirty conditions if the oil isn't shinny I drop a fresh one in, it's real simple.
It's not rocket science, like your making this deal seem.

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My question would be why? Paper filters last at least three times longer. They offer more than enough airflow for your engines. It is just pointless to feed them the extra dirt so you can hear your intake honk. I just do not get it.

Humidity is not driving in the rain my friend, with oils and antifreeze mixed in and who knows what else is dripping on the roads.

I could go on and on but at this point I don't really care what you have to say.

Good Luck

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Just an example because 60%+ humidity here would be a driving rain since 20% and below is normal. I still, in over 80 vehicles, and over 1 million miles of driving, have NEVER seen and air filter get wet or fail because of getting wet. I regularly get water over the hood in the summer crossing streams. Not sure why you have issues...


Don't be so angry. I understand that it sucks having been so wrong about this for over 25 years. That is still no reason to stick with poor filtration... Swallow that silly pride and do your engines a favor. Unlikely I know, just a suggestion.

Ok I was always trying to be nice.
I was never and will never be wrong, why would I be angry.
You believe what you want and I know what I know.

I made a rude comment and on second thought I took it back, I will be the better person.

Well you certainly wont offend me and, I do not find holding your tongue when you have something to say, makes you a better person in any way.

I love the claim about advances... if that is so, I bet paper filters have advanced too...

You know what you know based on advertising and your clean intake? AMAZING! You are a wizard for sure.

The test is bunk but you know what you know. I love that, you should finish with that every time you fail to prove your point.

It has been said here. If you go heavily off road stick with paper. At the end of each day, I drop the filter in the trash and put in a new $10 OEM filter. I had a K&N and it wasn't worth the hassle. It got so caked with dirt you couldn't clean it couldn't get back to its original state

Probably works fine in New York City though...