Cam Phaser Issue & Warranty Info

[jmar311]

I'm yet another victim of the cam phaser issue. I currently don't have the $$ to pay out of pocket so I had to do a little research on my options. So, talked to Ford dealer and they said I can do either Ford financial assistance or extended warranty as options…or pay out of pocket in full of course.



First and foremost they told me the issue was inevitable and no TSBs would prevent it nor repair it at no cost.



I'm literally just a couple months over my 5 year PT warranty which I believe covers the Cam Phaser issue. So there's that and that's annoying. The service manager was very helpful so I wanted to share all of the information he gave me with you guys.

So he said extended warranty is probably the best way to go. He said they will ask me to bring the turck in and inspect it and then based on what plan i want (prob Premium Coverage) they will give me a quote based on the term of time/mileage I want the extended for. He said it's a pretty straightforward process. He said Ford does a "cool down" period which means that once u purchase the warranty they will not allow you to do repairs under it for at least 60 days. He also said if I sell the truck I can get a proactive reimbursement for the warranty from Ford once I sell it...if I do end up selling.

The repair I'm told based on his last quote was over $4,000 he said.

He also said there's a Ford assistance program where u take the truck in and they do diagnostics on it. And if everything checks out you can get % of assistance. He said he's never seen over 50% coverage on Ford assistance. He said if u go into dealer for diagnostic check and decide NOT to do it you will owe a $220 diagnostics fee (prob varies by dealer). He said there are other conditions where its possible people don't qualify for the assistance.

He said in cases like this its prob best to do the extended warranty cuz obviously even after an issue like a cam phaser u would still have coverage for other items….which does make sense at the 5 year + mark.



I asked him if there's was anything the dealership could have done to prevent this since i always take my truck to dealership for service, oil changes, etc. He said no, even if they did every single TSB. I don't know if that's accurate or not but that's what he told me.

He also told me that the cam phaser issue wont damage the engine per se if u continue to drive it with the rattle sound on cold start but in extreme cases the cam phaser itself could come apart if its that defective and truck is continually used over a very long period ignoring the issue.

So that's all of the info I can remember from our conversation. He said in my state Florida, warranty prices are regulated so an employee pays same price as i would for a Ford extended warranty. So other states it could be different and negotiable but in FL no go.

If you do go forward with the Ford assistance you are not charged the diagnostic fee but you are if you back out and decide not to do it.

Just wanted to pass my conversation along to you guys and get your feedback to see if this is all legit or if the service manager BS'd me in any way. But also wanted to pass the info along in hopes that it may help others cuz God knows you guys have helped me with issues in the past.

 

[smurfslayer]

First and foremost they told me the issue was inevitable and no TSBs would prevent it nor repair it at no cost.

Well, if that were the case, Ford would be bankrupt by now because every, single Ecoboost on the road would have the vulnerability and yet the failure rate isn’t 100%, 75% or 25%. This issue has a lot in common with the fire triangle.

For the phaser issue to surface you need:
1) defective pin
2) the old duty cycle
3) extended oil change intervals.

If you have an old truck but had a park ‘pin’ (whatever it’s called) that isn’t defective, weak or somehow not as robust, then the other 2 don’t matter.
If you are still rocking the old duty cycle, and don’t have #1, yeah, that pin will probably wear a little faster, but who knows how long it could last.
If you decided to push your oil change intervals long and you don’t use at least a good semi synthetic ( 2017’s could use either ), and you have the old duty cycle, no doubt you will wear the pin faster.

If you have all 3, you’re going to have an early failure.

The problem definitely exists, and it definitely has been a thorn in the butt to Ford and Raptor end users. Hopefully, all goes well on your repair

 

[FordTechOne]

First and foremost they told me the issue was inevitable and no TSBs would prevent it nor repair it at no cost.

And that is why you don’t take advice from dealership service departments. The issue is far from “inevitable”, it’s a wear pattern that develops from the VCT system operating outside of original design parameters. The new calibration prevents that wear from continuing to occur. It was not a TSB, it was a recall. The revised operating strategy is included on all post 11/19 builds.

So he said extended warranty is probably the best way to go. He said they will ask me to bring the turck in and inspect it and then based on what plan i want (prob Premium Coverage) they will give me a quote based on the term of time/mileage I want the extended for. He said it's a pretty straightforward process. He said Ford does a "cool down" period which means that once u purchase the warranty they will not allow you to do repairs under it for at least 60 days. He also said if I sell the truck I can get a proactive reimbursement for the warranty from Ford once I sell it...if I do end up selling.

That’s warranty fraud. They know there’s an issue; falsifying the inspection report and selling you the warranty makes them money on both the sale of the plan as well as the subsequent repair. If they’re blatantly committing fraud in front of customers, what are they doing when you’re not looking?

I asked him if there's was anything the dealership could have done to prevent this since i always take my truck to dealership for service, oil changes, etc. He said no, even if they did every single TSB. I don't know if that's accurate or not but that's what he told me.

Dealerships cannot just “do” TSBs; there needs to be a customer concern related to the bulletin. Ford spend millions on the recall campaign; it was both mailed to all customers and available in FordPass. The fact that you didn’t have it performed it a significant contributing factor to the issue continuing to develop into a cold start rattle.

So that's all of the info I can remember from our conversation. He said in my state Florida, warranty prices are regulated so an employee pays same price as i would for a Ford extended warranty. So other states it could be different and negotiable but in FL no go.

If you do go forward with the Ford assistance you are not charged the diagnostic fee but you are if you back out and decide not to do it.

Florida and CA passed legislation that requires residents to buy warranties from dealers in state. It’s a racket that allows them to control prices and sell at full price by eliminating competition from out of state dealers.

Just wanted to pass my conversation along to you guys and get your feedback to see if this is all legit or if the service manager BS'd me in any way. But also wanted to pass the info along in hopes that it may help others cuz God knows you guys have helped me with issues in the past.

None of what they’re telling you is legit. It varies from completely wrong to downright fraud.

 

[jmar311]

Thank you smurfslayer and fordtechone. Much appreciated on the detailed responses.

Smurfslayer - all I can say of the 3 options you presented is that my oil was changed every 3-3500 miles. I have no clue about #1 & #2.
1) defective pin
2) the old duty cycle
3) extended oil change intervals.

As far as 'old truck' I have an '18 Raptor. It has 55k miles on it. Delaership did every service and every oil change at every interval and used synthetic. All nets out to I have the cam phaser issue. So just looking for best approach from here.

FordTechOne - thanks for all the detailed inine responses. You said "None of what they’re telling you is legit. It varies from completely wrong to downright fraud." Then I'm very concerned about Ford and purchasing any future vehicles from Ford.

To clarify, are you sayng there was a recall for this issue with the cam phaser? and if so, wouldnt it be safe to think a dealrship would perform the recall when my truck is in for service since I take it to the dealership for every single service and oil change?

what is the best approach from here and next steps to dig deeper on the recall and see what I can do about getting this repaired without spending a fortune?

Thanks again for all the info.

 

[smurfslayer]

Probably call ford C/S and explain everything that you explained here. If you took care of the truck as indicated, it sounds like they would probably offer to cover part of the repair. You have nothing to lose by asking and especially since you’ve got clear service records at or before required intervals.

Remember, the stealership service department isn’t actually Ford, it’s a franchise that services Ford vehicles. Like any other field, there are knowledgeable folks and go along to get along folks. Just like you may know the law better than the cop who pulls you over or you may know the OS better than the tech support guy/gal you call, it’s possible for the consumer to know more about a service issue than the service manager or service writer.

What I’m missing here:

This is a recall, not a TSB so did the stealership perform the recall during the time you owned the truck? They should have. The recall pops up on FordPass and sits there if you don’t perform it. So they should have performed the recall - which reprograms the cam phaser duty cycle(?). This entitles the owner to extended coverage on the phasers if it was performed in the time window - so was it?

You also get a recall notice as the current owner in the mail.

 

[FordTechOne]

FordTechOne - thanks for all the detailed inine responses. You said "None of what they’re telling you is legit. It varies from completely wrong to downright fraud." Then I'm very concerned about Ford and purchasing any future vehicles from Ford.

The dealership is not “Ford”, they’re an independently owned and operated franchise. That means they don’t always have the customer or manufacturer’s best interests in mind; they’re the middle man out to drive revenue for themselves.

To clarify, are you sayng there was a recall for this issue with the cam phaser? and if so, wouldnt it be safe to think a dealrship would perform the recall when my truck is in for service since I take it to the dealership for every single service and oil change?

Yes. Recall 21B10 was mailed to all owners and also populated in FordPass. Owners had one year to get it done, which also provided extended warranty coverage. Just because the dealer should have completed the open recall doesn’t mean they did; many dealers such as yours misinterpreted the purpose of the recall and skipped over it.

what is the best approach from here and next steps to dig deeper on the recall and see what I can do about getting this repaired without spending a fortune?

Thanks again for all the info.

Get some quotes from various dealers. Request an itemized list of parts so you can compare the prices to online at parts.ford.com. A fair dealer should be charging list price or less. Labor should be 14 hours at most.

 

[jmar311]

Thanks FordTechOne...very much appreciated on all of the informtation you have provided. To say the least I'm a bit p!553d that I'm at this point and there was a recall and my dealership didn't even perform it or at least inform me that it exsited. I ask every time I go in for service if there's any recalls or TSBs for them to perform becuz that impacts whether I sit and wait for the vehicle or drop it off.

I'm still digging on what can be done through Ford but honestly feel like I have no recourse at this point based on a recall that should have been performed free of charge.

I'll keep you guys updated as I conitnue forward in hopes that it provides help to anyone else in my situation and saves them some time and energy.

 

[nikhsub1]

You keep saying recall, the phasers were never a recall...

 

[FordTechOne]

You keep saying recall, the phasers were never a recall...

21B10 was a recall.

 

[nikhsub1]

21B10 was a recall.

Ahh was that the reprogram?