GEN 2 towed in today FFS!!!!

[smurfslayer]

No, the same cannot be said for any engine going back decades. A Ford 5.0L Windsor would run 250,000 miles, no problem. Might leak some oil due to poor sealing design, but everything was solid. Mod motors were even better, and rarel;y leaked anything. In comparison, for the Ecobosot engines, Ford has a ongoing TSB program to replace timing components for free on Ecoboost engines because it's such a problem. Rationalize it all you want- it is not a very reliable engine when compared to other offerings from both Ford and competitor, both now and in the past. It makes power though- there is no disputing that.

and just to be fair the moment they went from the Windsor 2v to the OHC design 4.6, the increased problems started to show up.

but you know what? We all remember fondly the “simple 5.0 Windsor”. I knew a Ford mech. who worked on them from ’87 through about ’89. The 5.0 wasn’t bullet proof. In fact, the 5.0 Mustangs were the service department’s number 1 visitor.

 

[smurfslayer]

BTW...

do you guys smell sasquatch77 yet? (not you @EricM)
her newest FRF sign in is heavily featured in this thread.

 

[traxem]

Apparently they over did them and they all broke

I’m not a mechanic, but something doesn’t sound right. All cars with direct injection has a high pressure fuel pump, usually in the fuel tank. The fuel goes to a fuel filter, then into fuel rail, and then to each of the injectors. The injectors spray fuel directly into the valve from needle-size holes. That’s my limited understanding on how direct injection work. There’s no way a bolt can make it from a fuel pump, through a fuel line, fuel filter, fuel rail, into an injector through needle-size holes and into a valve or valve cover.

It sounds like a tech more likely dropped a bolt into a valve and it got smashed into pieces.

I’m not a mechanic, but I would get a second opinion (or a better explanation from
the dealer). If there is negligence, insurance should get involved.

 

[NASSTY]

I’m not a mechanic, but something doesn’t sound right. All cars with direct injection has a high pressure fuel pump, usually in the fuel tank. The fuel goes to a fuel filter, then into fuel rail, and then to each of the injectors. The injectors spray fuel directly into the valve from needle-size holes. That’s my limited understanding on how direct injection work. There’s no way a bolt can make it from a fuel pump, through a fuel line, fuel filter, fuel rail, into an injector through needle-size holes and into a valve or valve cover.

It sounds like a tech more likely dropped a bolt into a valve and it got smashed into pieces.

I’m not a mechanic, but I would get a second opinion (or a better explanation from
the dealer). If there is negligence, insurance should get involved.

There is a pump in the tank, but the direct injection pump (HPFP) is located on the passenger side valve cover.

 

[wjn]

I’m not a mechanic, but something doesn’t sound right. All cars with direct injection has a high pressure fuel pump, usually in the fuel tank. The fuel goes to a fuel filter, then into fuel rail, and then to each of the injectors. The injectors spray fuel directly into the valve from needle-size holes. That’s my limited understanding on how direct injection work. There’s no way a bolt can make it from a fuel pump, through a fuel line, fuel filter, fuel rail, into an injector through needle-size holes and into a valve or valve cover.

It sounds like a tech more likely dropped a bolt into a valve and it got smashed into pieces.

I’m not a mechanic, but I would get a second opinion (or a better explanation from
the dealer). If there is negligence, insurance should get involved.

The high pressure pumps normally are driven by the camshaft. Sits on the valve cover. Makes perfectly sence a bolt broke inside, when overtorqued.

And because you do not know where this piece went or what it did, the complete valve train should be checked.

And worse, where is the gas? If in the engine, it would have dilluted the oil and you can get serious problems. Not now maybe, not within 1000 miles, but for sure the lifetime of the engine is affected.

 

[Gsteve]

I’ll ask but not sure I’ll get the right answer. Are the bolts inside the valve cover ? I’m guessing not so it shouldn’t have gotten inside the valve train. I checked the oil and I didn’t detect fuel. Still would like to know where it all went.

 

[Raptor911]

get them to change your oil. Make sure the oil does not contain any bits of metal and then check if it smells like fuel.

I’ll ask but not sure I’ll get the right answer. Are the bolts inside the valve cover ? I’m guessing not so it shouldn’t have gotten inside the valve train. I checked the oil and I didn’t detect fuel. Still would like to know where it all went.

 

[Edbert]

I know a lot about engines, but only the ones with push-rods and carbs!

Now that I've re-assembled my brain after learning that there are fuel pumps on top of valve covers there's one thing I still don't get. If a nut was loose inside the valve-train it would have done one of two things; lodged in some corner or crack or been digested by high-speed moving parts most of which are harder than that bolt. That means they should have either found the bolt or found the damage, right? Only other explanation I can think of is that instead of over-torquing the bolt the tech may have lost it or forgot to put it in.

There's also the mystery of the missing gas, did you say 1/4 tank? That is not a lot of money to be compensated for but it is a lot to just go missing.

 

[zombiekiller]

fueling issues on these trucks present like timing issues.

On my truck, a couple clogged injectors and a dirty fuel rail made the truck behave like it had jumped timing.

When they turned the wick up on the raptor EB, I think they pushed too far into the design buffer on the fueling system.

I would have them check the valve train with a magnifying glass.

I'd also insist that the dealership pay for an extended warranty to make you more comfortable based on them already admitting to shoddy work on their service department's end of things.

 

[EricM]

and just to be fair the moment they went from the Windsor 2v to the OHC design 4.6, the increased problems started to show up.

but you know what? We all remember fondly the “simple 5.0 Windsor”. I knew a Ford mech. who worked on them from ’87 through about ’89. The 5.0 wasn’t bullet proof. In fact, the 5.0 Mustangs were the service department’s number 1 visitor.

The 4.6's are tough as nails. There were some minor issues that got corrected over the years, but overall, I challenge you to find a motor built as tough as a early 2000s 2V 4.6 mod motor. Of course 5.0's were the #1 visitor back in the day, they powered damn near every truck for decades (and half the cars) and their trucks were the number 1 seller. I never said anything was bulletproof- only that they were way more reliable over the long haul than the current crop Ecoboost engines.

If you've owned and worked on Ford engines for the last 30 years, there's *no way* you would rank a 3.5 EB anywhere near as reliable as a 5.0 or 4.6 was. Not saying we need to go back to the 4.6/5.0, just saying these high HP small displacement turbo engines are never going to be the high mileage workhorses that the older lower powered n/a V8s were.