Raptor Assault - Detailed Course Overview

[troverman]

Quick question, possibly answered before...but I didn't see it.

If you buy a 2018 Raptor, is the course still free? Or was that for 2017 only?

Having relatives just outside SLC can't hurt.

 

[CFIT]

2018 will qualify too, for free.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[801Ag]

So I just got back from Raptor Assault. Overall I really enjoyed the course.

The 30 degree lean was of course the highlight, and in general the rock crawling portions were engaging. In particular, I really learned just how much clearance the truck (in Supercrew form) truly has, and it made me really want to push my Supercab. I was a bit disappointed at the amount of time allotted (and speed obtained) for the Baja portion, but can't complain. Just know the stock truck can handle much higher speeds than you're allowed to go there (confirmed by both my experience and others).
I was impressed with the condition of the trucks, despite 16,000 mile of abuse. I have been impressed with the stock tires on my truck after all the abuse I've put them through, but seeing the ones on the RA vehicles I thoroughly appreciated with just how well they hold up. The Jacob's head trail has lots of lose, sharp rock (the kind that eats up tires at speed) and with so many novice drivers commandeering trucks they don't own, you know the tires are taking more punishment than they ought to. I will note our truck's A/C and front camera were malfunctioning. One truck did get a CEL, but was swapped out in less than 10 minutes, if even 5.
As far as instruction goes, I got the impression only one of the four instructors really had any legitimate off-road experience, or at least understood exactly what the truck was doing in each different mode. Most of my questions went over the heads of the instructors, with the except of John who agreed with my observations about how the truck was set up and ran. If you want to ask me questions on this, feel free, but I won't go into detail here. Just note that John had some of the same reservations about drive modes/drivetrain setups commonly thrown around by Gen 1 owners, but after talking to Foutz he came to the conclusion I did, which is that the modes really do put you into the best setup for the terrain you will be dealing with, if speed and control is your goal. The only thing I would change is locking the rear for Baja mode for extra slide, provided you are able to throttle steer, and the terrain warrants it. Or, in cases where you are doing very tight turns, Baja 2H can be appropriate. As John noted, few drivers can steer using the pedals as opposed to the steering wheel, so Baja unlocked will be best for the vast majority of drivers. You can still certainly break loose the back end if need be.

If you'd like to see my media from the event, check out this link: https://photos.app.goo.gl/6ER0roirUfwH1wrm1

I was at this Raptor Assault (local guy in white Raptor #6) and can't agree more with your review.

I would have loved more time on the dirt track and more time to Baja.

But like you said, it was an overall good experience.

 

[DRAGONFLY]

Tagged

 

[troverman]

2018 will qualify too, for free.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cool, thanks.

 

[Truck-in-Muck]

• Tire pressures (heard they use 32/28 or 28/22, and also recommend 36 for daily)
• Tire Selection, C vs D or E
• Breakdown of Traction Control/RSC in all modes (Baja pretty much removes it entirely anyway, so what does hitting the button again do?)
• In sport mode, traction control seems to reduce power as opposed to braking. Is this true, and if so, does it do this at other times to save brakes? Furthermore, does it only show TC light/alarm when it utilizes brakes?
• Why Baja mode defaults to 4H unlocked (suspect because back end is loose anyway, but we'll see)
• No locking rear in Baja 2H (does it use electronic brake locking, and, if so, why was that preferred)
• 4A: How/When exactly it engages, and long term reliability (considering stuff like boosted Sport mode launches on pavement)
• When they find manual shifting most useful
• Aftermarket stuff they see most useful and snake oil stuff (alignment kits, bump stops, vs catch cans and weep holes)

Nice meeting you. Did you get these questions answered?

 

[troverman]

Nice meeting you. Did you get these questions answered?

4A: How/When exactly it engages, and long term reliability (considering stuff like boosted Sport mode launches on pavement)

This one I can answer even though I did not post this question. When you manually select 4A or it is selected automatically through Weather mode, the front IWE hubs lock. The system then uses a combination of algorithm and actual sensor input to determine when, and how much, to engage the clutch which will send power to the front wheels. If you engage 4A on dry pavement, you might feel slightly heavier steering. That would be because the front drivetrain is actually spinning thanks to the IWE's being locked. *If* one of the wheel speed sensors in the rear has a higher reading than the other three, the clutch will automatically start to supply some power to the front. Not full engagement, but enough to move power to the front to try and end that slip. If the wheel speed sensors continue to show one or both rear wheels are turning faster than the front wheels, more power will be applied to the clutch until the slip conditions ends, or up to 100% clutch engagement.

Now, there are other conditions which cause the clutch to engage preemptively. Steering angle, throttle input, vehicle incline angle are some. For example, if you put the hammer down, the clutch will engage almost instantly. Otherwise, it will wait for slip. Heavy wheel angle will likely result in less clutch engagement because this could cause binding.

As for durability, I've mentioned in other posts...the system has a method of determining when the clutch is being overloaded, and will automatically transition into 4H (mechanically locked) and notify the user. It will then switch back to 4A when the clutch is ready for action again. I'm guessing most users will never see that happen. The clutches are quite durable, and remember...they will never see more than 50% of the vehicle's torque passing through them, since in all cases the same amount of torque or greater will be flowing to the rear wheels. The clutches in your transmission will be seeing much more strain.

 

[gwpfan]

- Tire pressure ran on mine was 27/28 on all 4. Others there said theirs were the same. Recommended hwy was 38 (lawyer speak), but they did suggest at least a couple hundred pounds the in rear or run front at 37/38 and rear at 32/33, for best life and overall performance, with the disclaimer of not towing.
- Tire selection, they were really sold on the BFG KO2 that they come with. Went into why its a C range, but modified and why it was the better tire...lost me with all the details, I spoke directly with John on this.
- They did give break down and Baja mode does not remove it, just allows you to go further before it kicks in. Can't recall details.
- As to breaking, it changes based on settings. Wish I could recall the modes, but on the breaking one was definitely the best feel on the short track, maybe it was Baja, or the one we ran just before Baja.
- Baja 4 H lockers off, to preserve rear end.
- Baja 2 H lockers not available. Too many rear ends ruined in even the 6.2. Trying to limit warranty claims.
-4A personal preference. They said even such. A number mentioned though it does shift hard sometimes when not expecting it while in 4A so they prefer 4H or 2WD.
- Manual shifting, really don't find it useful, even pointed out while in rock crawl mode and many other hill climbs were were actually in 2nd gear. Also mentioned too many gears to keep track of. Only thing they did like at times was being able to lock out upper gears, but said they mainly just keep it in auto.
- Aftermarket stuff - just tried to sell/suggest the light bar and the bead locks, but really didn't push that. There was also a difference of opinion between the team on the exhaust upgrades a few had. Really didn't go into details. Biggest thing pushed when really asking them was to make sure and use good quality synthetics, Royal Purple, Lucas, etc.

 

[rtmozingo]

Nice meeting you. Did you get these questions answered?

You as well! To some degree. Unfortunately, as you all know, they were just instructors, not engineers as I had hoped. That said, John has talked extensively with Foutz and has a lot of experience with both trucks. The most important thing I got out of talking with him is that Foutz agrees with the mode setups (as in he ran Baja 4H unlocked for the Baja 1000). He told me that he [John] initially fell into the "Gen 1 mindset" of messing with all the stuff rather than trusting the modes, but after talking with Foutz began trusting the system and found it truly did work best for getting you into the correct setup for your environment. He laughed at the thought Sport 4A locked TC full off would be better than Baja mode (still have yet to test this, but I'm very skeptical). I asked about locking the diff for extra throttle steer control, and he said he thought it wasn't set up that way as few people can actually throttle steer, but if you knew how to do it then locking the diff was certainly an option if you felt it helps you. I need more testing with this, as I'm currently on the fence. I'm leaning towards locked, but I'm really heavy on the throttle steer, but I can definitely see (and have had) situations where I wouldn't want it engaged so I would have more control. And as John astutely noted, in the end you want the setup with the maximum amount of control for both safety and speed, despite what others may tell you. I trust him and Foutz on this, as they clearly are the most experienced in both trucks (note their thoughts also match my observations, FWIW).

Now to the specific questions. Unfortunately I didn't get several of them asked - was really short on time and I was trying not to badger John too much (my questions went over the heads of the other instructors).

• Tire pressures - Asked if they were using 32/28. John thought that was about right, but said the temperature changes meant they saw 6-8 psig fluctuations. Considering we drove a lot on the road without airing up, this made me feel better if I was to ever be without an air pump (as I was at TRR earlier this year).
• Tire Selection, C vs D or E - Didn't get this one answered, but gwp covered it, and that matches what I saw others had said. Gwpfan, did you post that youtube video where he discussed this? Basically high speed offroading does better with soft tires, so C range. Less wear and better grip. I was very impressed with how well the tires on the trucks were holding up, considering they were basically rental raptors that had seen 16000 miles of lose sharp rock. Mine look brand new after about 300 miles on that type of terrain, so very impressive. Mud performance at Raptor assault was noticeably better than what I've seen with mine, but the pressures were 6-7 pounds lower, so that probably has something to do with it. I would consider the mud performance seen at Raptor assault tolerable, almost good for an A/T, especially at how well the K02 excels at everything else.
• Breakdown of Traction Control/RSC in all modes (Baja pretty much removes it entirely anyway, so what does hitting the button again do?) - No answers here, but John and another instructor agreed with me it seems like the T/C button is more or less unnecessary in the off-road modes. Personal note: My wife was driving in muddy conditions in default baja mode, and intentionally fishtailed it back and forth three times in quick succession before it corrected her on the fourth time (when she was just trying to see how far she could get it to go around). It is on, but I never had it interfere in Baja or Mud/Sand. Think you'd really have to be losing it or doing something crazy to see it. Now, for normal, sport, and weather, there's definitely benefit from hitting and holding the button. Just a hit will really loosen up the truck - was in weather mode the other day, and roads were damp, and I slid a full lane and a half over despite being in 4A. T/C on won't let you do that, which is good, but if you do want to play around a simple press has always been sufficient for me.
• In sport mode, traction control seems to reduce power as opposed to braking. Is this true, and if so, does it do this at other times to save brakes? Furthermore, does it only show TC light/alarm when it utilizes brakes? - They didn't know for sure but they agreed with my observations. They think brakes only come into play when steering correction is needed.
• Why Baja mode defaults to 4H unlocked (suspect because back end is loose anyway, but we'll see) - John surmises that very few people can throttle steer, and therefore the safest, fastest setup for them is 4H. Considering the back end is loose even in this mode, I suspect this is why. That said, I definitely can corner wider corners faster with diff locked. In very sharp corners, such as at an ATV park, Baja 2H fits the bill, but unless you are making hairpin turns, I've found this is not only slower but somewhat dangerous.
• No locking rear in Baja 2H (does it use electronic brake locking, and, if so, why was that preferred) - No answer on this. I saw this from another attendee but the instructors told me they didn't know. Personal experience seems to indicate it acts as a locked rear when necessary. I had no problem throwing the rear around extremely tight turns in this mode. Quickly exiting is limited until you straighten up however, since even a modicum of gas will careen the back end further around.
• 4A: How/When exactly it engages, and long term reliability (considering stuff like boosted Sport mode launches on pavement) - Thanks trover for the great explanation. This matches my findings. Instructors haven't used it, nor know much about it. I've heard from other ecoboost drag racers others that lots of launching in 4A will wear out clutch packs, but cannot verify this. Matt Shelton, who attended the course with me had his truck switch to 4H several times. I couldn't replicate this, but haven't tried too hard. Instructors didn't know if it would switch from 4H -> 4A, but we all suspect it won't.
• When they find manual shifting most useful - Regrettably, didn't ask this one. I found it quite useful in baja mode at TRR to extend my gas tank and for engine braking (beware, this will bruise passengers), and others say it is quite helpful for deep sand/mud to stay in first two gears. Would never use it on the road (I've tried, auto is better) and probably not in Rock crawl.
• Aftermarket stuff they see most useful and snake oil stuff (alignment kits, bump stops, vs catch cans and weep holes) - Didn't get around to this one either. Sorry to let you guys down on that front. They did say several times that the trucks were just like stock, minus the light add ons and the exhaust upgrades. So I doubt they have catch cans and weep holes. I'm very suspect of catch cans due to the change of state (vapor into gas) as well as the functional change of the closed system. Sasquatch I'm sure will inform us the importance of weep holes soon here.

 

[Robtor310]

Just got back. Absolutely awesome experience.

Kudos to Ford for providing this.