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Performance Tune with Warranty

Discussion in 'Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods' started by John Rathjen, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. Badgertits

    Badgertits Full Access Member

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    Sure that's possible, & I guess for the guys I've spoken to who actively do this the types of cars they're modding that wouldn't necessarily raise an eyebrow - I'm talking AMG 63s & M6s etc. BUT the facts are the facts & a dealer can be suspicious all they want but if nothing is physically there to point at (as is the case w/ turbo adpaters, downpipes, catch cans, CAI's, FMIC's etc.) AND there's nothing to prove in the ignition cycles/data logging of the original ECM - they're not gonna bother fighting that battle IMO.

    EIther way, FWIW, I have a Gearhead tune & a 100k b2b warranty....I'm less concerned about powertrain though as I am about dumb stuff like: water leaks, infotainment system, IWE system, lighting, pano roof, etc. etc. etc. One of the most common "engine issues" you're going to hear about on these trucks is cam phaser rattle. #1 its not like it immobilizes the truck instantly - guys have driven thousands of miles & months after hearing it & having it diagnosed & even warrantied by dealer waiting on parts - if you're super paranoid you could be driving for months on end WITH the issue on a stock tune building up plenty of history in the ECM, #2 that being said - on all the forums I researched before buying a Raptor (& I did a lot - I'd been mostly a GM lifer prior to this) & owners I've personally spoken to @ car shows & tuners/engine builders too - I have not seen ONE INSTANCE of a cam phaser/engine issue being denied warranty work for a tune. I'm just being honest - that's what I've found. I also don't think the cam phaser issue is as prevalent/serious as its made out to be by the unfortunate forum members who log on to complain or the trolls that do so for the hell of it. And even if it is one of the more "common" engine issues effecting the HO 3.5 EB - my opinion is then the dealers are accustomed to handling the repairs/warranty claims & just go through the motions getting it diagnosed & serviced moving on to the next one. Its "lazier" to just automatically attribute the issue to the most common problem they see rather than put in more work/effort trouble shooting what else could possibly be causing it - sometimes that's a bad thing like w/ my last GM truck guys were having TSB's done for driveshaft rebalancing when they actually needed a torque converter or vice versa just cuz the dealers wanted to push the repairs through seeing too much of the same thing.

    Also my personal experience (albeit not w/ Ford) has been that all the vehicles I've ever owned under warranty that were also tuned/modded & needed warranty related repairs I never had a problem. Did I tune back to stock when I did? Yes of course, but only if I had an engine/tranny related issue. This applies to a GTO, G8 GT, 1 silverado, 2 Sierras, & an S4

    If I have an engine/drivetrain problem I want the dealer to check out I'll flash to stock & not be the least bit concerned. Other than stuff like a stubby antenna, snow tires, tool box, mudflaps, fog lights etc. my truck looks/sounds stock. I replace the air filter w/ a motorcraft lol. There is no massive FMIC poking through the grill, no loud ass raspy exhaust, no woooosshy BOVs, no CEL throwing hole drillin tube running Catch can, no useless code throwin CAI, no downpipes, no upgraded TB, none of that stuff. IMHO that is the kinda stuff that serves as a "red flag" if the dealer DOES wanna mess w/ you or if they've got pressure from Ford corporate to vet out warranty claims more in depth.
     
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  2. goblues38

    goblues38 FRF Addict

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    Sorry, but you are mistaken.

    sigh...

    When you flash the ECU with a tune. It leaves a digital time stamp that shows the ECU was flashed. It may not show what was done. But is shows someone was in there. Per the EULA for your warranty, any unauthorized change i software can be grounds for warranty termination. Again, Ford may not be able to see what you did, but they no you did something. if your last service visit was on April 1st, and you blew a motor on December 1st. They will check your ECU. If any time stamp to the ECU is done between visits to the dealer, they got you. And it will show 2. Your flash to load a tune, and your flash to go back to stock.

    that is how you get busted. no amount of key cycles will hide this.
     
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  3. goblues38

    goblues38 FRF Addict

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    for the record...i have tuned many of my cars......Audi, Volvo, Chevy, Ford....never had I had warranty work denied. Volvo went down that path once, but did not pursue.

    In regards to the DTF tune. This is actually the worse kind of tune you can get. The reason is... They dont change the the parameters of the ECU, instead the change the parameters of the things the ECU reads and reacts to.

    For example. Let's say the truck coolant is at 200 degrees. The stock sensor reports to the ECU the 200 degree temp, and the ECO adjust fuel / air mixture accordingly. What the DTF things does, is to change the reading from the stock sensor, and make the truck think it is actually only 190 degrees, so the ECO would then act accordingly to that info and change the fuel / air mixture.

    The stock sensor may be making 20 pounds of boost. The DTF will change that to read 17 pounds at the ECU, fooling the the ECU into making 23 pounds instead.

    this is very dangerous. If any of the sensors fail, the DTF can do all sorts of weird things and report to the ECU false reading, causing the ECU to not go into limp mode when it should. Causing all sorts of head aches.

    Any of the real tuners will always tell you.....it is better to change the way a car reacts to the sensors (ecu tune) instead of changing how the sensors provide data.

    I would stay away from the DTF and other like it (pedal commander) with a 100 foot pole.
     
  4. Pure745

    Pure745 Member

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    I won't say which one.. but Ford actually sold me mine with a Cobb tune already installed on it. The truck is also certified with a 100K mile warranty. Now, I don't think they knew the tune was on it and I'm not sure if they would know to check before they sold it.. but it definitely was tuned.
     
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  5. Badgertits

    Badgertits Full Access Member

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    If that was the case then I WOULD DOCUMENT IT & now you got em by the balls. THEY sold you the truck like that w/ a warranty....on them (the dealer really).
     
  6. smurfslayer

    smurfslayer Be vewwy, vewwy quiet. We’re hunting sasquatch77

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    I’ll bet it’s not on them. While the purchaser may have been inadvertently misled or maybe didn’t check or have them check, what exactly is “on them(the dealer)”?

    let’s say the owner has a mechanical issue some months down the road, takes it in for service and the mechanic pulls the logs finding a tune. The next conversation is mechanic to s/a that the ecu was tampered with, several values out of spec as is common with a tune and the failure may be related to the tune. Even if they say ok, let’s see what happens, Ford will have to sign off on major repairs and it’s unlikely a related failure would be covered by Ford. Phasers? maybe. who knows. but a serious mechanical issue that could be tune related, I don’t think they would.

    but what is the owner’s recourse? court. What do they claim - dealer sold me a defective product or one that did not comply with US emissions law? (I’m asking).
    Ford would wash their hands of a non factory tune with a related mechanical failure.
    Meanwhile, the truck is down awaiting repairs.

    I don’t think this scenario is as cut and dry from a warranty perspective.
     
  7. goblues38

    goblues38 FRF Addict

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    I would disagree. The same digital bread crumbs could be used to show the tune was done prior to the dealership taking the car in trade, and prior to the second owner. The dates of the sale to the second owner, the car becomes "as is" and is bound by what ever warranty is documented at that time.

    When i traded my 2013 SHO in, I left the 93 octane tune, and put the tuner and cable in the glove box. No idea if anyone even noticed it.
     
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  8. melvimbe

    melvimbe Full Access Member

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    I would think it depends on the specific warranty and who provides it. When I bought my truck used from a dodge dealership, it was 'as is', meaning that the dodge dealership didn't add anything beyond the original standard Ford warranty that was already in play. In that case any tune that may have been placed on the vehicle by previous owner could have voided the warranty. If had a previous Ford extended warranty, I don't think the tune would be covered either. If however, the dealership itself offered a generic warranty, not Ford specific, then the tune would be covered.

    I don't know how the certification process works, but I'd guess it's more about visual inspection of parts and generic tests, not so much getting into the tuning like that.

    If this were my truck, I would verify that the dealership is aware of the tune, and if it's not covered, then have them remove it. If they won't then they need to either refund the cost the warranty or take back the vehicle. I would want to get it sorted out now, rather than when you need to use the warranty.
     
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  9. Pure745

    Pure745 Member

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    The scenario is that I bought a truck previously tuned - with the tune left on at the point of sale. I know this because it had 37's when I first was shown the car, pre-recon (truck is used) and when I took delivery, they gave me the COBB parts that were previously installed (Intake, FMIC parts) and the speedo was off by 5ish MPH to calculate for the 37's. The part were I feel it's cut and dry is that I purchased the warranty from the dealer at point of sale - which to me is stating they are certifying the vehicle as it stands, is worthy of the 100k mile warranty.
     
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  10. smurfslayer

    smurfslayer Be vewwy, vewwy quiet. We’re hunting sasquatch77

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    Well sure, if you bought the truck and an ESP on a previously owned - or not previously owned vehicle and there’s a non Ford tune on it, that ESP will cover anything not implicated by the tune. Some dealers like to throw the “your whole warranty is void” flag, which is a sign you need a new S/A or S/M or both. if both, go elsewhere because that violates Ford’s warranty agreement with you. However, that doesn’t stop the stealership from flagging your vehicle in the system as they would for, say, a lemon law suit, etc.

    So, if your moon roof pops at 75k miles, that ESP covers you.
    If your Transmission gives out at 75k miles, I think it’s going to be dealer dependent but if I were a betting man, I’d bet that generally it’d be covered unless you were caning it pretty hard and they said you were abusing it. A whole other topic of how you can claim abuse on a Raptor designed to be taken off road, particularly with the myriad of Raptor Assault videos out there.

    now, what if one of your con-rods decides it wants to be free of the shackles of life inside the engine block? or to make it more interesting, you have a detonation induced piston failure. I don’t think Ford is going to cover that under warranty, regardless of the sale conditions.

    That’s all just my opinion and I’m not trying to argue with you here, just politely disagree with the assessment that anything is going to end up being owned by the dealer or ford if there is a serious powertrain issue. It’s pretty dealer dependent, but best to not find out the hard way.

    From what I’ve seen, it’s either Roush or Whipple if you want tuned power and/or some form of powertrain financial insurance. Again, Ford would probably balk the same way as with a tune from another maker, but if the respective aftermarket tuner gets the claim it would end up covered by them subject to their warranty terms.
     

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