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PD1744

PD1744

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To add to that last but I think the appeal to the mod is parts availability and newer technology more than added travel. You get to use a longer shock yes. It still constrained by the stock geometry.
 
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NateMob

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For Nate and for science I checked it out. It’s fine. Especially if the IWE is actuated but fine either way. You don’t run in 4WD do you? Honestly I didn’t think this was an issue when you asked the question. With this mod if there’s any extra usable travel it likely won’t be in down travel as the relocating of the upper mount pretty much accounts for the shock height. I think the geometry is maxed (or close) even with the stock shock at full droop. Hope that answers your question.

The only times I've had to run 4wd is in the rain when the course is really slick and fighting for traction, and then we're all extra careful with throttle application. But i think about G2s and G1s bombing silt beds in baja and i always just assume that they are getting after it in 4wd to avoid the nightmare of getting stuck! I tell myself that maybe the front diff isn't as fragile as we're all afraid it is. Hell some of us never thought twice about running a 35" on a dinky toyota front diff and most of us only ever had to deal with a busted CV or two.

To add to that last but I think the appeal to the mod is parts availability and newer technology more than added travel. You get to use a longer shock yes. It's still constrained by the stock geometry.

I think your second statement is the real allure of these swaps, more fluid and larger components will hopefully lead to better performing and more durable parts!

I, personally, have always hoped that the extra (alleged) travel was at least partially split to allow for more droop than a stock G1 setup. With a full 35" tire (Generals) I make regular contact with my inner fender liners at full bump on our monthly race course. The idea that I would potentially be allowing for more up travel in the same scenario has been another reason i am dragging my feet on my own install. I hope the part i highlighted above is close to 100% accurate.

I really appreciate you checking that for the sake of an actual technical conversation and for your thoughts on the subject since you're able to view it and manipulate it rather than just my mind's random thoughts!
 
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PD1744

PD1744

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The only times I've had to run 4wd is in the rain when the course is really slick and fighting for traction, and then we're all extra careful with throttle application. But i think about G2s and G1s bombing silt beds in baja and i always just assume that they are getting after it in 4wd to avoid the nightmare of getting stuck! I tell myself that maybe the front diff isn't as fragile as we're all afraid it is. Hell some of us never thought twice about running a 35" on a dinky toyota front diff and most of us only ever had to deal with a busted CV or two.



I think your second statement is the real allure of these swaps, more fluid and larger components will hopefully lead to better performing and more durable parts!

I, personally, have always hoped that the extra (alleged) travel was at least partially split to allow for more droop than a stock G1 setup. With a full 35" tire (Generals) I make regular contact with my inner fender liners at full bump on our monthly race course. The idea that I would potentially be allowing for more up travel in the same scenario has been another reason i am dragging my feet on my own install. I hope the part i highlighted above is close to 100% accurate.

I really appreciate you checking that for the sake of an actual technical conversation and for your thoughts on the subject since you're able to view it and manipulate it rather than just my mind's random thoughts!

Hmm... Never considered that those guys might be using 4WD, as most big builds you see that start to pull the most travel out of the front end, end up deleting the 4wd and going full pre-runner/trophy truck style eventually anyway. I don't recall any stories of front diffs grenading personally. Axles? Yeah maybe a few. I run 35's on my Toyota with stock gears and axles and zero issues. But yeah, you'd much rather an axle break than a diff. It's just like the upgraded outer TRE discussion. I'd personally much rather replace that than something else in our already over-taxed steering systems.

I would love to think that if you gained 2" of travel from the shock that it would be split too, but let's look at the mod rationally. I think from all the information available, it's safe to assume that between all F150's of the past 4 generations that the suspension geometry is relatively the same; meaning A-arm pivots, spindle height, diff-axle-hub relationship. Gen 1 Raptors being a +3.5 variation of this. The difference in the Gen 2 Raptor only being the taller shock bucket so that they could cram a longer shock in there. That's why all the Raptor converted F150's either need to use Gen 1 coilovers or do a bucket or eyelet (Mikra) mod. So that tells us that droop travel is pretty much (safely) optimized for the platform and we can only hope to gain bump by moving the upper mount. At least that's how I'm seeing it.

And yes, stuffing tires is definitely already a problem. Had a conversation with Jake last night and he suggested I pull the coil and properly cycle test everything and report my findings. One, I'm way too lazy to do all that, and two anything I come up with would be subjective. Just my tires and wheel offset alone are unique variables. This is why I never try to offer people 'absolutes'. With stock wheels I was able to stuff these baby 37's with minimal issues. With the Rotiforms it's a whole different animal. Adjust accordingly.

Any time brother. Hope any of that makes sense ;)
 

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Awesome build on the front coil buckets, etc. So, did I read that correct that you have the option of bolting that in place? Does the instructions say it is temporary til you get to a welding shop or not? Not trying to pic apart here, just seems like a shear moment with any kind of bolt. That plasma cutter sure does a neat cut of the metal.
 
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PD1744

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Awesome build on the front coil buckets, etc. So, did I read that correct that you have the option of bolting that in place? Does the instructions say it is temporary til you get to a welding shop or not? Not trying to pic apart here, just seems like a shear moment with any kind of bolt. That plasma cutter sure does a neat cut of the metal.

Thanks man. That's correct, KHC creates provision for bolt-in install, not temporary, permanent. Obviously weld-in is always an option. And yes, primary load cases here will be shear depending on the load vector, along with a little bolt tension, but you have plate against plate along the frame rail and old bucket also aiding to dissipate the forces. I did bust out the abacus and crudely ran the numbers and in all cases short of full-send, I'm at ease with the numbers. that being said, I'm still burning them in for sure.
 

CoronaRaptor

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Thanks man. That's correct, KHC creates provision for bolt-in install, not temporary, permanent. Obviously weld-in is always an option. And yes, primary load cases here will be shear depending on the load vector, along with a little bolt tension, but you have plate against plate along the frame rail and old bucket also aiding to dissipate the forces. I did bust out the abacus and crudely ran the numbers and in all cases short of full-send, I'm at ease with the numbers. that being said, I'm still burning them in for sure.
I was just more curious than anything. That at least makes the conversion a more of a home project as well. Had always figured this would be a weld in project only. Thanks for the clarification, I just like to learn shiit. Keep the build going!
 
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PD1744

PD1744

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Got the buckets welded in last Friday, so as they say 'they ain't goin' nowhere'.

Pics from last months TORR event at VIR came out.

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Shots were from before the nerfed "The Backbreaker". Counting our days till the next one.
 
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