My Issues Post Cam Phaser Replacement

Eship

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Panama City, FL.
My truck is a 2019 Raptor Crew 802A w/18,500 miles. Truck is stock. I've been having some nagging issues with the truck post warranty service. I'd like some input from some technicians on this forum or those who have personally had the same or similar experience. Below is some abridged background information.

I had the cam phasers replaced by ford dealer at 17k miles. Service was completed on 3/18. Symptoms/issues prior to cam phaser procedure were intermittent and slight cold start rattle, rough idle events that would occur maybe once weekly, and some slight performance issues/slight hesitations under heavy throttle. The truck did not display check engine light, but displayed codes P0018 and P0021.
The cold start rattle was simple to understand given the amount of material there is out there regarding cam phaser problems. The codes pointed to possible VCT solenoid issues when I did some researching.

Originally, the dealer diagnosed as bad cam phasers and stated that the phasers as well as the VCT solenoids were to be replaced. At the end of the day, only the cam phasers were replaced (no timing chain or guides replaced) and original VCT solenoids left in place. Dealer said Ford no longer recommends replacing VCT solenoids as part of cam phaser replacement procedure.

1. Results/Notes from initial cam phaser swap appointment:
-cam phaser rattle no longer present
-rough idle events returned
-slight performance issues under heavy throttle still remain
-P0018 and P0021 codes returned
-a new code, P04DB, is displayed.
-hissing sound can be heard from engine bay while engine loaded/in boost (sound is comparable to airbox leak or aftermarket intake)

2. Results/Notes from first follow up appointment:
+dealer adjusted the intake system hoses and tubes. Said some were crooked and one was not fully seated. Dealer states hissing sound fixed.
+dealer found elec. connector not fully seated on water pump assembly.
-when I pick up truck, hissing sound from engine bay still present.
-rough idle event still occurs
-codes P04DB, P0018, and P0021 return.

3. Results/Notes from second follow up appointment:
+dealer found "CAC bypass Valve Tube" not secured. Replaced bypass tube assembly
-All codes and symptoms return including hissing from engine bay.


***Hissing Noise From Engine Bay***
What could the hissing noise be? The hissing noise is likely tied to the P04DB code, in my opinion. This noise is very much so related to engine load and boost level. Please offer your trouble shooting thoughts on this in general. Also, can someone supply me with a diagram of the PCV system and what tubes, hoses, seals, sensors to inspect? That would help me out because I'm about to take some time to take a close look at everything under the hood myself, especially PCV system.
*NOTE* - I sometimes smell exhaust in the cab which leads me to believe I'm smelling a leak in the PCV system. However, the dealer got oil everywhere (including exhaust) when changing the oil during the cam phaser swap. Hard to tell if I'm smelling PCV system leak or residual burnt oil from under truck.


***Codes P0018 and P0021***
These codes have been present since before the cam phaser swap.
I've found Ford SSM 48423 info on these codes that generally says to exercise the VCT solenoids as this may clear any debris that may have clogged solenoid. If exercise doesn't work, replace the solenoid(s). My dealer is more or less not acknowledging these codes on paper at this point and cannot tell me what troubleshooting they have done in way of VCT solenoids or anything else that can be tied to these codes. They are only focusing on the hissing sound during the follow up appointments.
Are these codes generally VCT solenoid related? Please let me know your thoughts.


So, with that said, I'd like to hear comments from ford technicians here or individuals who experienced and solved the same or very similar issue(s). I don't wish to spend any time bashing the dealership just want to focus on constructive input. I'm going back to this dealer one more time and then I'm going to go to a different ford dealer.

Let me know if you have any questions or would like further information. I appreciate your assistance with this in advance.

Thanks!
 

Azrael

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Do you have the service paperwork to show what was replaced, and what new part numbers you have? I think with the 3/18 service date, you did not get the newest PN associated with the service.
 

FordTechOne

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Have you verified that your engine oil level is correct? Low engine oil level can cause all of those DTCs.

The PCV system is integrated into the valve covers. The PCV valve is located on the passenger side valve cover as shown below:

upload_2021-4-22_13-12-32.jpeg

The PCV fresh air tube is located on the drivers side. It also contains the crankcase pressure sensor.

upload_2021-4-22_13-17-45.jpeg

Check both tubes and related connections to verify that they are secure and properly connected.

How are you pulling DTCs? P0018 and P0021 should always set a check engine light. Also, what are your service intervals and what type of oil and filter are you running?
 

Eship

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Feb 19, 2021
Posts
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Location
Panama City, FL.
Azrael,

Sorry, my date that I listed above (3/18) in original post is actually 3/18/2021. I do have the paperwork. I see two part # on here, but don't know which is the cam phaser.
One line item is is HL3Z-6256-CD Sprocket-Camshaft
The other line item is HL3Z-6C525-CD 20211101 Cam

Again, don't know what is what, but I do remember checking on this forum for the latest cam phaser part number and it was a match for my paperwork.

Thanks.
 

Eship

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Feb 19, 2021
Posts
16
Location
Panama City, FL.
FordTechOne,

Thank you for the reply and information/illustrations on PCV. I will check everything out soon and report back.

I will give oil level a look, but I checked the oil level after each service appointment. I would check when picking the truck up from dealer and then would do my real check after I would get home and let the truck sit for 15-20 mins. I will give it another look to be sure because it has been a couple of weeks since checking.

I'm the second owner. The truck had 13k miles when I bought it. I suspect that the original owner was starting to get intermittent cam phaser noise and decided to trade it in rather than do the warranty work. That being said, I don't know the oil service history from original owner.
My plan is to change the oil every 5k miles and use Mobil 1 extended performance along with a ford oil filter. Since owning the truck, I've only changed the oil once (a couple weeks after I purchased the truck). As part of the cam phaser replacement, Ford has replaced my oil with Ford semi-synthetic and ford filter. I haven't changed the oil back to my preference because I figure that at any given appointment at the dealer, they may change the oil again as part of whatever repair procedure they do next.


My neighbor down the street has a second gen as well. He is Cobb tuned etc. etc. I use his Cobb tuner/controller to read the DTCs.

thanks
 

FordTechOne

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FordTechOne,

Thank you for the reply and information/illustrations on PCV. I will check everything out soon and report back.

I will give oil level a look, but I checked the oil level after each service appointment. I would check when picking the truck up from dealer and then would do my real check after I would get home and let the truck sit for 15-20 mins. I will give it another look to be sure because it has been a couple of weeks since checking.

I'm the second owner. The truck had 13k miles when I bought it. I suspect that the original owner was starting to get intermittent cam phaser noise and decided to trade it in rather than do the warranty work. That being said, I don't know the oil service history from original owner.
My plan is to change the oil every 5k miles and use Mobil 1 extended performance along with a ford oil filter. Since owning the truck, I've only changed the oil once (a couple weeks after I purchased the truck). As part of the cam phaser replacement, Ford has replaced my oil with Ford semi-synthetic and ford filter. I haven't changed the oil back to my preference because I figure that at any given appointment at the dealer, they may change the oil again as part of whatever repair procedure they do next.


My neighbor down the street has a second gen as well. He is Cobb tuned etc. etc. I use his Cobb tuner/controller to read the DTCs.

thanks

There is always the chance that the original owner never changed the oil before trading it in at 13k miles. That would certainly explain the issues and DTCs that you are seeing. If that is in fact the case, there is most likely contamination in the VCT solenoids along with scoring on the camshaft caps, which will cause low oil pressure to the VCT units resulting in a lack of VCT control and DTC P0018/P0021.
 

smurfslayer

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There is always the chance that the original owner never changed the oil before trading it in at 13k miles. That would certainly explain the issues and DTCs that you are seeing. If that is in fact the case, there is most likely contamination in the VCT solenoids along with scoring on the camshaft caps, which will cause low oil pressure to the VCT units resulting in a lack of VCT control and DTC P0018/P0021.

Serious question - although I do know and understand this is well past what most of us would consider an acceptable oil change interval and outside what the warranty would consider acceptable, but... I’ve had oil analyzed at each change by blackstone and granted the farthest I’ve gone I think is... 8200 miles or 7800 I don’t recall which. Owners manual says 5k for severe use, 10k for regular Joes. I don’t think Ford would put 10k in the owner’s manual if it was going to create a bunch more service so...

would 13k or close to it, on factory oil really potentially cause this?

Since the OP has had the phasers done, I presume they change the oil too, correct?

very interesting observation about the oil life and VCT. I think a lot of us just take the entire system for granted.
 

FordTechOne

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Serious question - although I do know and understand this is well past what most of us would consider an acceptable oil change interval and outside what the warranty would consider acceptable, but... I’ve had oil analyzed at each change by blackstone and granted the farthest I’ve gone I think is... 8200 miles or 7800 I don’t recall which. Owners manual says 5k for severe use, 10k for regular Joes. I don’t think Ford would put 10k in the owner’s manual if it was going to create a bunch more service so...

would 13k or close to it, on factory oil really potentially cause this?

Since the OP has had the phasers done, I presume they change the oil too, correct?

very interesting observation about the oil life and VCT. I think a lot of us just take the entire system for granted.

The 10k interval is the absolute maximum and only applicable under ideal operating conditions, which is misleadingly called “normal” in most Owners Manuals. That means no cold or hot climate operation, mainly highway driving, no towing, no hauling, no off-road use, no extended idling, no short trips, and flat to moderately hilly terrain. Almost nobody falls into that category.

I drive my truck gently compared to most, and my oil life monitor reaches 0% between 5k and 6k miles. That is the true “Normal”. For “Severe” (max towing or hauling or severe hot or cold operation) the interval is 3,000 miles.

If OPs truck went 13k miles with no oil change, it is highly likely that there is excessive wear on multiple bearings. Cam journal wear will result in VCT issues, since oil pressure will bleed off in the journal before reaching the phasers. Cam journal damage can also occur if the engine is run low on oil, which is entirely possible since OP is not the original owner.
 

sixshooter_45

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The 10k interval is the absolute maximum and only applicable under ideal operating conditions, which is misleadingly called “normal” in most Owners Manuals. That means no cold or hot climate operation, mainly highway driving, no towing, no hauling, no off-road use, no extended idling, no short trips, and flat to moderately hilly terrain. Almost nobody falls into that category.

I drive my truck gently compared to most, and my oil life monitor reaches 0% between 5k and 6k miles. That is the true “Normal”. For “Severe” (max towing or hauling or severe hot or cold operation) the interval is 3,000 miles.

If OPs truck went 13k miles with no oil change, it is highly likely that there is excessive wear on multiple bearings. Cam journal wear will result in VCT issues, since oil pressure will bleed off in the journal before reaching the phasers. Cam journal damage can also occur if the engine is run low on oil, which is entirely possible since OP is not the original owner.

I'm doing my oil change every 5,000 miles or now yearly because I only have a 6.5 mile round trip to get to work.

Anyways, if I remember correctly I believe you own a 2019 like myself.

How or can you set up so that my vehicle will read 0% oil life at any given oil setting? In my case 5,000 miles.

The reason I ask is because on my 2014 F150 I could set it in the settings or maybe I did it online, don't remember. I've looked around online and in my settings and haven't found where I can change this interval?

Many thanks for all your contributions and the time and information you bestow upon us, it's very much appreciated.
 

FordTechOne

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I'm doing my oil change every 5,000 miles or now yearly because I only have a 6.5 mile round trip to get to work.

Anyways, if I remember correctly I believe you own a 2019 like myself.

How or can you set up so that my vehicle will read 0% oil life at any given oil setting? In my case 5,000 miles.

The reason I ask is because on my 2014 F150 I could set it in the settings or maybe I did it online, don't remember. I've looked around online and in my settings and haven't found where I can change this interval?

Many thanks for all your contributions and the time and information you bestow upon us, it's very much appreciated.

Yes, I have a 2019 as well. Unlike the older systems, the intelligent oil life monitor cannot be set to specific intervals. It will only indicate the need for an oil change based on the algorithm.
 
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