Livernois Procharger Install-Advice/Input Needed

Evil Peaches

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All,

Looking to poll the crowd and get a little insight regarding the installation of my Procharger kit. I reached out to Livernois Motorsports to quote the install of my D-1SC tuner kit, which comes with everything minus the fuel injectors and Procharger's tune. When I requested the quote, I requested they also install/perform the following: Powerstorm billet oil pump (offered on their website,) colder spark plugs, Evenflo thermostat, and finally, a dyno tune. The quote, which I have attached to this post, was quite a bit more than I was expecting.


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As you can see, there was quite a bit on here that I didn't ask for, which bumped up my estimated cost considerably. I sent another message to the representative asking for a quote minus the additions:

"Alright sir, I’m off the clock and checked the quote over. I recognize the other items you added to the first quote are an upgrade, but that’s just more than I’m willing to invest into this build. I love this truck and I want to make it a little more fun with the blower, but I can’t justify those other recommended upgrades at this time. I was looking for a build more like your S580 performance pack you guys advertise on your website, with a few alterations. 1: I already have the actual procharger kit and cat back exhaust, so I wouldn’t need those. 2: I would still like the billet oil pump+install. Those two points aside, I would only want the items listed in the S580 procharger performance pack. I hate to be a bother, but could I get a quote more in line with the S580 pack? Your shop has a reputation on the forums for being THE tuner for Raptors in Michigan, and I look forward to hopefully working with you guys."

And I received the following response:

"the packages on the website are based on completely stock vehicles below 30k miles. So being above this mileage, the price would change due to needing some items and additional labor due to the mileage. In the case of the 6.2 we have noticed some common failure points as they get higher in the mileage, especially in oiling, valvetrain, and cylinder head the quote sent addresses the failures that we see most commonly. Now, If you want to forego the suggested replacement parts we suggest then we can, but you would have an additional waiver to complete as your likelihood of failure dramatically increases. We strongly recommend doing the quoted preventative replacement as you will, at some point, end up needing to do them, and when these fail, it will be catastrophic, and with making more power, it will cause even more damage than normal. Also, while the vehicle is here, if any of these components fail or are on the verge of failing, we would have to replace them. An example would be if say the water pump had gone bad or we notice the timing chain has stretched , in these instances we would need to replace these components. And if they already have failed, the cost to tear it back apart is substantially more than doing it ahead of time."

This is not me bashing Livernois. I understand where they are coming from, and agree that all of the above parts would be best case scenario for my build. I could pay another $10,000 for the install, but do I want to? absolutely not. I wanted to check with the community and see what parts may be worth adding, and which ones are not necessary. There are quite a few items listed which I haven't heard have failed with other supercharged builds. I am not looking for a super aggressive tune, I want the added power but with drivability in mind. I have not experienced any engine issues with the truck since I have owned it (minus a cracked radiator,) and the Carfax didn't show any points of concern when I purchased the truck. I am not looking to add more mods (after this) to increase performance, this is as far as I want to take it. I apologize for the lengthy post, but I would really appreciate some input.
 

FordTechOne

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Do they break out the estimate in labor hours and part cost? I’m just seeing the total.

The labor to replace the oil pump is quite involved. The oil pan needs to be removed, which requires the front axle assembly to be lowered from the truck. That’s alone will add a significant labor cost.

As far as the timing set, the chains need to be removed to access the oil pump. So unless you had very low mileage as they stated, it wouldn’t make sense not to replace the timing drive components while they have it apart.

Remember that this engine was never designed for forced induction, so it appears that Livernois is taking as many precautions as they can to mitigate a failure. The last thing any installer/tuner wants is negative PR from a build failing.
 
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Evil Peaches

Evil Peaches

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Do they break out the estimate in labor hours and part cost? I’m just seeing the total.

The labor to replace the oil pump is quite involved. The oil pan needs to be removed, which requires the front axle assembly to be lowered from the truck. That’s alone will add a significant labor cost.

As far as the timing set, the chains need to be removed to access the oil pump. So unless you had very low mileage as they stated, it wouldn’t make sense not to replace the timing drive components while they have it apart.

Remember that this engine was never designed for forced induction, so it appears that Livernois is taking as many precautions as they can to mitigate a failure. The last thing any installer/tuner wants is negative PR from a build failing.

Unfortunately the cost of the listed items and labor wasn't itemized, they only provided a total cost. I expected the oil pump to be an involved process, but I didn't think the fuel pump, water pump, and 8-rib pully kit were really necessary. While the engine wasn't designed for forced induction, there are many supercharged builds on here that have gone without the need for fuel pump upgrades (for mild builds.) Otherwise, I believe many of the kits would come with, or recommend, the fuel pump upgrades.

I understand where they are coming from, but I also don't want to shell out my own cash for their own peace of mind. I'm not opposed to the timing chain replacement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the cost of parts for the chains and tensioners doesn't seem to be that much, it would mostly be cost of labor, which would already be done to replace the oil pump.
 

FordTechOne

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List price is about $330 for the timing components, so not much relatively speaking. As far as the fuel pump, maybe they’re concerned that it is weak due to its age and may not survive with the higher duty cycle and BAP? A lean condition will destroy an engine with F/I added in short order.
 

CoronaRaptor

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I would not cheap out on anything if you are procharging a 6.2, there has been a long history of failures, way more than going with a supercharged 6.2. If livernois recommends it, then I would do it, now for shi t and giggles, why don't you get a quote from Hennessey just to compare, I bet you will be surprised and the chance of it catching on fire also increases. Sorry, I didn't need to jab that last comment in there, but I did anyway. Good luck.
 

BoostedToy

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FTO is correct, this engine was not designed for FI. Not sure if you are in a position to do so, but a Gen II may be a better route. My 2013 Roush has been great (approaching 150k, all supercharged). I also know that it could drop a valve, oil pump gear, rod failure or a number of other catastrophic failures.

The 6.2 is far from the friendliest from the aftermarket. Mods are expensive and not many options available. It’s sort of the antithesis of an LS.
 
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Evil Peaches

Evil Peaches

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I’m not turning this into a thread of Gen 1 vs Gen 2. How every post on here devolves into that is beyond me. I wanted a Gen 2, I would have bought one. I’m not throwing shade at Livernois OR Gen 2s, all I’m asking is if the general consensus is the above parts are necessary or HIGHLY recommended.
 

Jakenbake

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To be fair, how many OEM engines were designed for forced induction that didn’t already come with the forced induction?

This is hot rod stuff here, custom, so unfortunately additional modifications necessary.

I agree with most here, if you are going to open it up, might as well replace anything that might fail.

Edit: just saw you post, I would assume it falls under highly recommend.
 
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Evil Peaches

Evil Peaches

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To be fair, how many OEM engines were designed for forced induction that didn’t already come with the forced induction?

This is hot rod stuff here, custom, so unfortunately additional modifications necessary.

I agree with most here, if you are going to open it up, might as well replace anything that might fail.

I’m starting to come around to the idea, no matter how painful it sounds right now.
 
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