Is this a ticking sound normal?

[FordTechOne]

I can’t hear anything unusual, but these engines are known to develop cam phaser issues, which presents itself as a rattle on cold starts. It typically goes away once oil pressure builds.

The issue was resolved in production 3 years ago. The root cause was software, which was corrected via FSA 21B10.

The way to test this is:
- next time you are doing a cold start
- before starting the engine push the gas pedal to the floor and hold it there while also pressing the brake pedal. Hold them there.
- Attempt to start the engine while still holding the pedals down. The engine should cranks but not start. Do this two times for about ten seconds each, then immediately start the engine as normal.

If there is no rattle when it starts this time then you likely have a cam phaser issue.

The turning over will build oil pressure, which actuates the cam phasers early.

During cranking cam phasers do not actuate (phase), they simply fill with oil. In the case of a failed locking pin mechanism, that dampens the movement between the housing and rotor so it doesn’t oscillate and cause a noise.

Cam phasers can get so bad they no longer function and rattle constantly. But I’ve seen this test done on YouTube (while I was researching a turbo issue).

Regardless of brand and design, a cold start rattle that lasts a few seconds is the result of a locking pin issue. Once off base timing, the locking pin is no longer relevant to operation of the phaser.

 

[Old-Raptor-guy]

I’m hearing a normal engine sound, maybe the mic didn’t pick up what you’re asking about?

I agree with this!!

I get videos/ sound bites sent to me almost daily. They are totally worthless, I need the vehicle in front of me, even after 35 years of wrenching. Those that know, know, those that don't, don't.

It is about the same as taking a video of a basement with 6 inch of water in it, from the top of the stairs and sending it to a plumber asking "where is the leak".

 

[2020FordRaptor]

The issue was resolved in production 3 years ago. The root cause was software, which was corrected via FSA 21B10.

During cranking cam phasers do not actuate (phase), they simply fill with oil. In the case of a failed locking pin mechanism, that dampens the movement between the housing and rotor so it doesn’t oscillate and cause a noise.

Regardless of brand and design, a cold start rattle that lasts a few seconds is the result of a locking pin issue. Once off base timing, the locking pin is no longer relevant to operation of the phaser.

Your knowledge is amazing. Thanks for all your help.

 

[2020FordRaptor]

After further research, and numerous youtube videos, I can say that I believe it is wastegate rattle.

 

[BoostCreep]

Mine does it too, but once everything’s warm it goes away. Definitely the wastegate. The cam phaser sound is unmistakable. It’s loud.

 

[JoeSC]

The issue was resolved in production 3 years ago. The root cause was software, which was corrected via FSA 21B10.

While you're here, I never actually went in for this FSA for my '17 as I'm almost to 70K and never developed the rattle. Should I take it in, or is it unlikely to develop now?

I mainly didn't want to have to deal with redoing all of my Forscan stuff if it got reset and I assumed it was probably ok at this point.

Thanks in advance, and thanks for always offering your knowledge here!

 

[FordTechOne]

While you're here, I never actually went in for this FSA for my '17 as I'm almost to 70K and never developed the rattle. Should I take it in, or is it unlikely to develop now?

I mainly didn't want to have to deal with redoing all of my Forscan stuff if it got reset and I assumed it was probably ok at this point.

Thanks in advance, and thanks for always offering your knowledge here!

I would still bring it in, there’s no downside and it certainly wouldn’t hurt to have the latest software updates. As long as the ForScan changes aren’t in the PCM or TCM, nothing should get reset.

 

[JoeSC]

I would still bring it in, there’s no downside and it certainly wouldn’t hurt to have the latest software updates. As long as the ForScan changes aren’t in the PCM or TCM, nothing should get reset.

Thanks! I checked my notes, and I only modified BCM and PDM. Nice. Thank you again for the extra info!

 

[Snuggles]

The issue was resolved in production 3 years ago. The root cause was software, which was corrected via FSA 21B10.

During cranking cam phasers do not actuate (phase), they simply fill with oil. In the case of a failed locking pin mechanism, that dampens the movement between the housing and rotor so it doesn’t oscillate and cause a noise.

Regardless of brand and design, a cold start rattle that lasts a few seconds is the result of a locking pin issue. Once off base timing, the locking pin is no longer relevant to operation of the phaser.

Does that mean that IF there is a cam phaser noise at all then they are bad? I always wondered if it was because they were sticky or something.

And, I have no idea what you mean by "off base timing..." etc. I don't really know how they work, but if you care to elaborate I always enjoy learning. If it's too complex for a keyboard, I totally get it.