Day 3 of Ownership- does anyone really miss the V8?

[mezger]

Let's say the truck instead had a V8 bumped up to maybe 475hp (needs more peak for similar power under the curve).

Whats to miss:

- Better throttle response
-- Faster throttle response
-- More predictable throttle response
- Sound
-- I'm OK with electric cars' sound, but I find this V6 note to actually be disagreeable. This thing must have the firing order of a late 90s GM rental car V6.
- Less complexity
- No turbo lag
- (Speculative: )Less heat soak.

What's gained:

- More midrange power
-- Gotta downshift more to get to the power.
- Better fuel mileage
- Better at high altitude
- Cool turbo sounds with the windows down.
- No DOD
-- Talk about a disagreeable sound...

WRT weight, I've owned a few LSX engines.

Overall, I'm not of a super strong opinion one way or the other, as I appreciate the fuel mileage benefit but don't care for the throttle response and noise. Overall, I lean toward the V8, but obviously it wasn't a deal breaker... though this is also colored by the lack of an actual competitor from any other automaker.

IMO, while it gets out of its own way just fine, the truck needs another 100 hp one way or another.

As far as looks are concerned, I like both gens, but IMO the Gen 2 is the best looking truck ever made. Esp in avalanche with no applique.

 

[Fastback89]

The truck I traded in for the 18 Raptor was a 2013 Crew Cab FX4 5.0 liter. The Raptor blows that truck away in every way and as an added bonus I'm getting high 15's for mileage.

 

[xrocket21]

Let's say the truck instead had a V8 bumped up to maybe 475hp (needs more peak for similar power under the curve).

Whats to miss:

- Better throttle response
-- Faster throttle response
-- More predictable throttle response
- Sound
-- I'm OK with electric cars' sound, but I find this V6 note to actually be disagreeable. This thing must have the firing order of a late 90s GM rental car V6.
- Less complexity
- No turbo lag
- (Speculative: )Less heat soak.

What's gained:

- More midrange power
-- Gotta downshift more to get to the power.
- Better fuel mileage
- Better at high altitude
- Cool turbo sounds with the windows down.
- No DOD
-- Talk about a disagreeable sound...

WRT weight, I've owned a few LSX engines.

Overall, I'm not of a super strong opinion one way or the other, as I appreciate the fuel mileage benefit but don't care for the throttle response and noise. Overall, I lean toward the V8, but obviously it wasn't a deal breaker... though this is also colored by the lack of an actual competitor from any other automaker.

IMO, while it gets out of its own way just fine, the truck needs another 100 hp one way or another.

As far as looks are concerned, I like both gens, but IMO the Gen 2 is the best looking truck ever made. Esp in avalanche with no applique.

get in a gen 2 truck

put a tune on it

run it hard in baja mode with anti lag

talk to me about lag

 

[mezger]

get in a gen 2 truck

put a tune on it

run it hard in baja mode with anti lag

talk to me about lag

One can talk all day about a modded *

For a stock turbo vehicle, this thing spools decent, but it's not like a NA engine.

From what internetting tells so far, this is no 2JZ / N54 / LBZ / 997 turbo. Being that it's my DD and doesn't appear to be ridiculously overbuilt, I'm not yet in the business of throwing out my powertrain warranty.

 

[smurfslayer]

Let's say the truck instead had a V8 bumped up to maybe 475hp (needs more peak for similar power under the curve).

Whats to miss:

- Better throttle response
-- Faster throttle response
-- More predictable throttle response
- Sound
-- I'm OK with electric cars' sound, but I find this V6 note to actually be disagreeable. This thing must have the firing order of a late 90s GM rental car V6.
- Less complexity
- No turbo lag
- (Speculative: )Less heat soak.

What's gained:

- More midrange power
-- Gotta downshift more to get to the power.
- Better fuel mileage
- Better at high altitude
- Cool turbo sounds with the windows down.
- No DOD
-- Talk about a disagreeable sound...

WRT weight, I've owned a few LSX engines.

Overall, I'm not of a super strong opinion one way or the other, as I appreciate the fuel mileage benefit but don't care for the throttle response and noise. Overall, I lean toward the V8, but obviously it wasn't a deal breaker... though this is also colored by the lack of an actual competitor from any other automaker.

IMO, while it gets out of its own way just fine, the truck needs another 100 hp one way or another.

As far as looks are concerned, I like both gens, but IMO the Gen 2 is the best looking truck ever made. Esp in avalanche with no applique.

I don’t see how you get to a power plant that improves the current performance short of a 427ci / 7.0 liter power plant with some serious attention paid to internals. Not the rumored 7.0 truck engine, it would need to be something built for big power.

So now, you gain about -guessing here- 150 pounds in just engine weight.
OR
go for a 4 to 4.5 liter TT v8. honestly, with the 3.5 capable to 600+ in the GT, they may not even need to go much bigger than current, but if they’re staying married to the TT they need to have more cooling and charge cooling.

You’re not getting over 510 tq with natural aspiration below 430 cubes, generally.

I’d look at a v8 Rap with more hp/torque, but it’s all vaporware.
besides, the ecoboost kicks the other truck motors respective asses, so until someone comes along with a better mouse trap... let’s continue to rumor monger.

 

[mezger]

I don’t see how you get to a power plant that improves the current performance short of a 427ci / 7.0 liter power plant with some serious attention paid to internals. Not the rumored 7.0 truck engine, it would need to be something built for big power.

So now, you gain about -guessing here- 150 pounds in just engine weight.
OR
go for a 4 to 4.5 liter TT v8. honestly, with the 3.5 capable to 600+ in the GT, they may not even need to go much bigger than current, but if they’re staying married to the TT they need to have more cooling and charge cooling.

You’re not getting over 510 tq with natural aspiration below 430 cubes, generally.

I’d look at a v8 Rap with more hp/torque, but it’s all vaporware.
besides, the ecoboost kicks the other truck motors respective asses, so until someone comes along with a better mouse trap... let’s continue to rumor monger.

Agreed, the V8 is prob vaporware, I'm addressing the benefits and drawbacks of a hypothetical modern V8 of similar power.

My LS7 had 500 hp, probably weighed less than this ecoboost, was first produced in 2006, had a nice fat power curve... it can be done. Well, probably ignoring some new fuel economy BS. There was the pesky issue of the glass exhaust valves, but I'm gonna sweep that under the rug. To your point, it was 7 liters, had a good head design, and full of titanium bling, but with a good 4 valve head and VVT, I don't see it taking 7 liters to do 500 hp & meet emissions. Agreed, it would probably weigh more than the eco since I don't see Ford doing a pushrod. [edit:] GM currently is doing 460 hp with a nice power curve with a 6.2 pushrod.

Power under the curve is what makes things go, I don't really care about torque so long as the power curve is reasonable.

This engine makes decent power, but my expectations are normalized to price point and this truck wasn't cheap. Compared with a NA V8, its throttle response and noise leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[hkguns]

Y'all kidding yourself if you think you would still pick EB over a new V8 if it was offered.

No, I have access to V8 powered F150’s and the regular EB blows them out of the water. The Raptor EB is even better.

 

[OriginalToken]

Y'all kidding yourself if you think you would still pick EB over a new V8 if it was offered.

Only if the new V8 makes the same or more power and the same or more torque, and gets about the same or more fuel economy. In short, if I gave up nothing I currently have to get the V8. Personally I would accept a bit of a mileage loss for significantly more power (HP or torque) but I am not sure everyone would, to some people mileage is important.

Nothing in the current Ford lineup matches what I described above. In other words, if they offered every gas engine they currently make as an option in the Raptor I still might opt for the EB 3.5, and if I did not opt for the V6 it would be because I threw mileage out the window and went for something like the 5.2 Voodoo.

T!

 

[smurfslayer]

Power under the curve is what makes things go, I don't really care about torque so long as the power curve is reasonable.

This engine makes decent power, but my expectations are normalized to price point and this truck wasn't cheap. Compared with a NA V8, its throttle response and noise leaves a lot to be desired.

The problem is that the Rap -needs- power under the curve and needs it way more than a regular sedan, suv, or run of the mill pickup. 500hp isn’t as important to the Rap as 500 tq.

 

[smurfslayer]

Only if the new V8 makes the same or more power and the same or more torque, and gets about the same or more fuel economy. In short, if I gave up nothing I currently have to get the V8. Personally I would accept a bit of a mileage loss for significantly more power (HP or torque) but I am not sure everyone would, to some people mileage is important.

Exactly. The gen 1 crew have several, years running mpg threads, so there’s a contingent of the Raptor community who value MPGs.

I don’t know that you can accomplish replacing the ecoboost with another hypothetical v8 + >= hp + >= tq + >=mpg. you’re going to have more rotating mass, more friction. I think you could relatively inexpensively get a v8 with 2 out of those 3, but a new platform to produce en masse, because I don’t think any manufacturer is going to be thinking single use power plant going forward.

If we go bigger, we get a weight penalty; at least some suspension development to account for this. If we go way bigger; like Ford loses their economical minds; epa-ized 460 crate motor... lots of suspension work, but you have your hp, torque and give up about 4mpg on the highway and probably won’t ever break 12mpg in town.

My last 455 olds got 15 mph on the highway, but had 2.73 ( Posi ) gears - ’71 NinetyEight. She also got 10 mpg in any other driving conditions. My 460 Cougar never got close to 15mpg. 3.90 gears and 12mpg was the best I ever got. Now surely with the new 10 speed, things would look slightly more rosy but remember this is still a 6000 pound truck we’re talking about.

So here we are again.

Obligatory bait... Here sasquatch77...

This is why the ecoboost TTV6 is the best power plant choice for the Raptor. You get power, torque and economy, plus Ford made sure we didn’t have to deal with intercooler condensation.