Audio upgrades, Beyond the DIY under 500

Discussion in 'Ford Raptor Audio/Video/Electronics Forum [GEN 2]' started by Guy, Jul 17, 2018.

  1. smurfslayer

    smurfslayer Be vewwy, vewwy quiet. We’re hunting sasquatch77

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    I’ll just leave it alone then. it works now and has bsss. I’m not trying to turn this stage into a full interior tear down and modification and I’m not dumping another 2 grand on this. I’ve got other mods to do to this truck and other projects going on.
     
  2. evan9r

    evan9r Member

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    Mids are in the rear doors and the crossovers are in the a pillars connected to the tweeters.

    What is the order of operation for tuning? Set amp gains first, leave amp hpf and lpf off and tune from the app? Set speaker distance first then eq? There's no manual for the app is there? lol
     
  3. dhmcfadin

    dhmcfadin Full Access Member

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    Why did you do that?

    No manual for the app.

    Yes:

    1. Set amp gains with no eq while playing the following tones at the maximum unclipped volume. For my trucks. & like to use 26 on the sync 3 volume dial. 28 begins to clip. I recommend you play these tones with your speakers disconnected. We just want the amp sensing the signal.
    - tweeters- 5 k
    - midbass- 1k
    - subs 50 hz

    2. Grab a tape measure and set your time alignment. Accurate measurement is crucial.

    3. Start setting up your crossovers based off the FS and frequency response of your speakers. If you speaker has an fs of 1100, the lowest you should cross is double the fs: 2200 hz. If you aren’t running active, set all active crossovers to off. The passive crossovers, including the rear coax will handle the full signal accordingly.

    4. Set your individual channel gain in the dsp. Play uncorrelated mono pink noise through your system and use your rta mic to measure the output of each speaker individually. This will allow you to see the output level of each speakers. Set the output gain so that every speaker measures the same dB volume at your ear position.

    5. Eq your speakers. Do this one by one just like setting channel gain. You will use you rta mic and your choose of visualization software. This step is where you will boost and cut frequencies to level out your rta graph.

    6. After EQing all speakers individually, play all speakers together and re-measure. You are looking for a fairly flat frequency response from sub 40 hz to 10 k hz.

    7. Now your eq is set, time to fine tune your sound stage. The stage should make you feel like you are surrounded by sound but every instrument and voice has its own direction. I recommend reading this pdf and playing these songs so you can listen for the same cues they are describing.
    https://mecacaraudio.com/2018sqlrulebook-pdf/tantric-tuning-notes/

    8. If you find differences in the way these songs sound compared to how they are described, adjustments need to be made.

    9. Finally, revisit time alignment. Is the image center on your dash? Is it 6 inches right or 6 inches left? Does it sound like the singer is on your dash front and center playing directly to you? If you experience the later, you stage is set properly and you can go enjoy your system. If you don’t have that experience, we can make further adjustments.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  4. evan9r

    evan9r Member

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    Thanks for your help and assistance dhmcfadin, much appreciated.


    Tuning:

    I haven't had enough time to fully tune the system yet, plus I've been waiting on adapters for the front speakers to install the 6.5 mids. I have been tinkering with some of the settings however. Im guessing you set main volume and sub volume to 0db and leave Punch EQ off.

    I haven't been able to make the stage sound exactly right. After inputting speaker distances, it didn't sound right at all so I started increasing the left channel distances till they were much greater than the right channels. (90in Left and 65 Right) This doesn't make sense to me and its still doesn't sound quite right(in my mind) but much better than it did. I tried changing phases but neither one sounded better than the other, just different.

    Do you set sub volume the same level as speaker volume? My sub volume is much lower than the speakers. I know I can just adjust the speaker volume back down in the app but then I am limited to my max volume. I could turn the gain up on the amp a tiny bit but should I risk it? What if I want a little more bass at lower volumes sometimes? Just use the punch EQ or should I tune my sub to say -8db for normal listening(equal db as speakers) and just raise to 0db when needed?

    Once its fully tuned, will music sound like its coming from the entire 180 degrees in front of you? With my rear speakers turned off, it just sounds like something is missing right now.




    Complaints with the DSR1:

    Chimes: It took me a while to find out that chimes are controlled with the radio off, and turning the volume knob up or down, while activating the chime. While its a nice touch to be able to adjust the volume of the chimes. However it would have been nice if these were set at a default value from the start so you're not riding around without chimes till you figure it out. Every once in a while I will lose a chime completely only to have it come back on its own. Also the chime/phone integration with music is not as smooth as oem.

    Bluetooth: More stable overall now. However, it always drops the initial connection when opening the app for the first time getting into the truck.
     
  5. dhmcfadin

    dhmcfadin Full Access Member

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    You are going to have a hard time tuning without the correct speakers in the truck. That’s the whole point of tuning. To improve the frequency response of the speakers in the environment. Different speakers produce different responses. It’s also important to note that time alignment is based on distance. If you start changing the distance of the speakers to random numbers, the time alignment can’t do its job.

    Volume is always 0db
    Sub can be 0db but I tune at about -5db to give extra volume for certain tracks

    Wait until you have your real speakers in the truck before you start making observations and tuning because of those observations. It won’t turn out right.

    What are you using for a tuning mic? How are you measuring your frequency response? That is crucial in order to get the image right. Time alignment is a small part of the process. Frequency response, gain, q, channel gain, and crossover settings are what bring the image onto the center of the dash and allows you create width and depth in your sound stage. Time alignment only gives you a broad starting point and is simply the first step.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018 at 1:50 PM
  6. lawdog

    lawdog Full Access Member

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    I don't know why you'd try to tune without key speakers present...maybe just for practice, but you'll just have to re-do it once they're in.
     
  7. goblues38

    goblues38 Member

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    Thank god i am old now. In the late 80's and early 90's I was a MECP certified installer and had several IASCA completion cars. As I got older, I decided my ears were better just settling for an upgraded stock system over high end stuff. To their credit....car stereos of today are light years ahead of stock systems of the 80's from the factory.

    I transferred my car stereo obsession to home theater. While most people settle for Home Theater In a Box, I have the $7,000 rattle your neighbors windows version.

    To each his own :)

    It is cool to read threads like this. Reminds me of my 20's. It is easy to see who knows what they are talking about, and who is full of it as well.
     

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