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GEN 2 Audio upgrade in 2017 SCREW

Discussion in 'Ford Raptor Audio/Video/Electronics Forum [GEN 2]' started by melvimbe, Jul 29, 2019.

  1. melvimbe

    melvimbe Full Access Member

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    So I'm starting to look into what it would take to upgrade the audio. My knowledge is pretty weak overall, but I've read through many of these threads and picked up some knowledge. I went out and got a quote, and I've got a few questions on it. I figured I'd run this through here first before I asked the shop that gave me the quote.

    First off, I'm not trying to build the best system possible. I mostly just want a good system with clarity. The stock system does come off as rather flat to me. I do want some bass, but I don't need to a ton of it. Mostly listen to rock and country. I've seen the under $500 thread and like the idea, but am a little afraid it's not going to be satisfying long term and I'll end up doing a second upgrade.

    So here's the basics of the quote I got.
    - iDatalink maestro - $100
    - T harness - $60
    - Audison Forza 8 channel amp - $1500
    -(Front) Hertz Mille Pro 6.5 in components - $480
    - (Rear) Audison 6.5 in coax - $220
    - Kenwood 8 in sub w/enclosure - $150
    - Sound mat insulation - $320

    Labor comes out to $800, with tax it's just over $4000. I can probably negotiate the price down a bit.

    So I get the iDatalink and T harness as this seems to be standard any time you replace the stock amp. No questions here.

    The amp is a bit confusing to me. It seems like the amp does the job of the Rockford Fosgate DSR1 as well as amp, hence part of the high cost. It doesn't seem like that's a cost savings though. I get tat the amp has tuning capabilities, but so does the DSR1, as I understand it. And I don't get why 8 channels. I thought perhaps that 4 channels were used for the front and rears, while the rest was 'bridged' for the subwoofer, but is that possible? And I get the impression that the 8 channels need to be bridged into 4 (130W x 4) for the speakers anyway. Did my quote perhaps leave off a separate amp for the subwoofer?

    As for the front components, my understanding is that the woofer and tweeter together count as one channel, correct? This particular one is 110W RMS, which I'm feeling might be more than I need. According to crutchfield, the tweeter is surface mount only and I don't want that.

    For the rears, I keep hearing that they don't have much value in the truck, so I'm thinking that's overkill as well. And from my experience with home speakers, you want to use the same brand of speakers throughout the space, so why switch to Audison here?

    For the sub seems right to me. I don't know that I'll want much more to that. Again though, it feels like I'm missing a separate mono amp. I think I'd prefer to have a behind the seat sub, but I don't mind taking up some of the space if it's going to cut down on costs.

    Anyway, thoughts?
     
  2. Guy

    Guy FRF Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Tweeters are a must. They made the biggest difference.

    You don’t want hertz Mille pro. I had them and they will distort at volume where distortion analysis of the signal showed a clean, unclipped source. You need the hertz Mille legends or go with another brand.

    It’s a big cab. It needs more bass than you think. One 8 inch sub isn’t going to cut it. I personally recommend a good 10 with no less than 600 watts if you’re going 75 watts per channel audio.

    I have a DSR 1 to JL HD 1200 and JL 800 watt 8 channel amp. 1200 to two 12 inch pioneer under the rear bench and hertz Mille legends all around. I tried the pros. Returned them.


    The biggest boost in clarity is going to come from high quality amplified tweeters.
    At least in this truck. You also need very good sound dampening in the front doors to get any kind of decent mid bass at lower volumes.
     
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  3. The Car Stereo Company

    The Car Stereo Company aka nosbusa Supporting Vendor

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    not sure why you need the maestro unless you are changing the radio. didnt see that in your list of components
     
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  4. goblues38

    goblues38 FRF Addict

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    your system goals do not match what you have listed. Pretty high price stuff listed here, and much of it is overkill and not proportionate. $480 for front components, but only a single 8 in sub? You wont be happy at all.

    8 channel amp is way over kill. no reason to waste 4 channels on front separates. 2 channels + passive crossover will work fine. 2 channels for the rear doors. 1 for the sub.

    you need a 5 channel amp. Having just done this, $800 tops is what I would spend on an amp based on your system goals.

    How are you getting signal to the amp? I am not sure how you do it with the sony, but you need a similar device like the NAVtv we use for the B&O. Don't let anyone tell you that I simple high level converter will work. It wont. Get the digital feed right from the head unit.

    Sound deadener is a waste of $320. It is a plastic 4x4 truck. Start without it and add it later if you insist. In order to do it right, you would spend 3x that much.

    $4,000 is crazy for what you said you wanted.....even taking into account you have to pay somebody to do it for you.

    Hopefully you read my thread.

    https://www.fordraptorforum.com/threads/it-is-done-started-my-b-o-replacement-stereo-install.68874/

    It is a pretty standard install that hits all the right boxes. Sounds great without breaking the bank and is a a hige upgrade over stock and the sub $500 thread.

    Shows how you do the surface mount tweeters as well.
     
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  5. lateralis

    lateralis Member

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    To me this setup sounds like a mix mash of some mid to high tear stuff with garbage components and is not thought out very well. It does look like they intend to bridge 2chs of that 8ch amp to give you 260 watts for the sub with 85 watts per ch for everything else. This can work BUT I don't think you're going to get what you want out of this setup especially at that price tag.

    I completely agree with Guy on the Mille legends. I did a full 3 way active front with my Tacoma and ripped them out before I traded it in. Amazing speaker but it takes some more effort to get it to work since it's an active front. You should be able to get them with crossovers though. I recommend focusing only on the front stage and sub IMO. The Mille Legends are a good choice, but they are going to need a lot more juice than 85 watts. You don't need to do anything with the rear doors honestly unless you are going to go the super fancy route with mono rear fill. Also a good sub will go a long way. You may not think you need a lot of bass but a good sub woofer can also aid in mid bass where your mid range speakers may be lacking.
     
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  6. melvimbe

    melvimbe Full Access Member

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    Thanks for all the advice guys. Gave me a lot to think about and confirmed much of what I thought about the quote I got.

    I had read @goblues38 and @Guy build threads. @Guy's is probably way more than I want to do, @goblues38 is probably a better fit. Of course, I need to replace the NavTV with the DSR1 for Sony, and I'll want to downsize a bit on the sub.

    I'm also thinking I need to do some more research, look at videos, and reconsider doing the install myself. Probably not do the sound deadening, perhaps save it for a future change. Don't know, that's the way I'm shifting at the moment.

    I also want to install the Phoenix PX6 too, but that, I feel much more comfortable doing myself. Perhaps odd, but I have replaced a car stereo before (decades ago) and that feels a lot more comfortable getting into the dash than the door.


    I'll come up with a new list of components and get your thoughts on it. Really appreciate the help.
     
  7. smurfslayer

    smurfslayer Be vewwy, vewwy quiet. We’re hunting sasquatch77

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    I’m on the cusp of upgrading the power to my sony system.

    You need a 10” sub if you’re going to increase power to the main speakers. I’ve got the Mobile Toys 10” JL Audio, currently hooked up to my kenwood 300x1 amp. The MTI 10” will fit behind the passenger rear seat, with minor contact when the seat is folded up. The jack needs relocating. Else, you keep all your rear storage.

    Stock sony is 25w rms to the doors, not sure if it sends that to the tweets, but as you know the Sony rolls off quite a bit of power beyond about 24 on the dial. The same 300w amp pushing the Kicker 8” is --significantly-- less sound. The 8” is adequate for the stock system at about 250-275 watts - about as far as you can take it without some negative aspects being introduced.

    Slap the 10” in there (it’s good for 400w rms) and no other changes and suddenly you have BASS and, the kenwood amp can be turned up to near max. 300w via the 10” sub is adequate for the stock 25 watts, but I’ll be upping the ante on the sub amp when I update the stock amp. I’m thinking I can get away with about 40-45w for the main channels and 350-375 on the sub.

    In previous threads, some really experienced folks have opined about setup. As previously mentioned, you can do a 5 channel amp, or a 4 channel + sub amp and power the front components, placing the tweets in the factory pillar location. The center channel gets whacked, and you tune with the DSR1.

    I think the sound insulation is a little spendy, depending on what they’re covering, but the consensus has been that if you’re going into the doors to replace speakers, it’s not going to hurt things to slap on some insulation. <-- be mindful of your door latch service bulletins, they’ll need to get inside to apply the “fixes” for the door latch freezing. Also, verify door latch function before you drive away.

    good luck
     
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  8. melvimbe

    melvimbe Full Access Member

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    I am leaning toward 10" currently, but not decided. I don't know about putting it behind the seats, as I'm not sure I need to do that. I do want to put up my seats and have space, but I'd be ok with sacrificing the passenger side maybe. And I don't want to relocate the jack. Where to? (that probably sounds like an ignorant question).

    I get the impression that you can skip the DSR1 with some amps, like the Audison I was quoted, but it's going to limit your options and not result in much cost savings.

    I don't know that I care whether I use 1 amp, or 2 (sub and everything else. I don't care about the center channel. It feels like it was thrown it more to give the impression of more high end system and mask how bad the other speakers were a little bit. Not for any real audio purpose.

    I go back and forth on this as well. I don't want to spend the money on it if it's not going to have an impact or screw up the latches. I also don't want to skip it while the doors are off.

    A part of me wishes there were not so many options to chose from with all of this. The PX6 option is so much easier to deal with. You either do or you do not. Anyway, the smart think for me to do is try and educate myself as best I can, possibly build up the confidence that I can do this myself and throw some of that labor money towards better product. There's really no rush on this. I really need to try and get a better idea of how the different speakers sound rather than going on reputation and specs alone.
     
  9. lateralis

    lateralis Member

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    Honestly the only way you are really going to know what kind of speakers you want are going to be through your budget and reviews. Unless you can find someone with them to audition the speakers you are basically going to go in blind. Now The real kicker with all of this though is the installation. A good installer can put in cheep speakers and make them sound amazing, and a crappy installer can put in expensive speakers and make them sound worse than stock.
     
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  10. goblues38

    goblues38 FRF Addict

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    true...but within reason.

    Find a local audio shop you trust. build a relationship with them. I listened to 4 sets of components back to back before i decided on what i bought.

    I bought most of my stuff from that shop.....they gave m help where i needed to demo things. would have been a d!ck move to waste their time, then buy everything on line from the lowest bidder.
     
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