Am I Crazy?

[FrodoTBaggins88]

The 2019 trucks are definitely a harsher ride on the road. My 2017 was soft and floaty, with lots of body roll and brake dive, but it soaked up the crappy roads better. However it had too much body roll and brake drive off-road so I can see why the 2019 with live valve is valved the way it is. It's lost that floaty "trophy truck" feel and rides more like an F250 on the road, stiff as a board. It soaks up the big stuff just fine but the little potholes and rough pavement will rattle your teeth out. I'm running 38psi in the tires but may drop it a bit more. I'm ok with the ride though. I really think the live valve suspension should allow us to set the shocks up how we want them, like it is in the RZR with live valve.

 

[smurfslayer]

With profound and sincere apologies to OP and everyone else, except @Johnkn for the thread-jack.

Earlier in this post, I opined thusly.

"it is a bug, and the gear position display disappearance is documented.... where??"

<merciful snippage> and emphasis mine.

To which a very outraged Johnkn retorted:

Where? Ummmmm how about the Raptor owner's manual? Ever read it? I stated that in my post that you quoted above, appears you quoted that without reading it as well. LOL

Not sure why you are so aggressive.

It's been in the Raptor Supplemental owners manual for years under 'Transmission' along with Ford's error in grammar that's been there for years as well.

And you'll find it here on the 2015 Expedition manual page 198 https://cdn.dealereprocess.net/cdn/servicemanuals/ford/2015-expedition.pdf

and here in the 2016 F150 owners manual pages 184/185.
https://cdn.dealereprocess.net/cdn/servicemanuals/ford/2016-f150.pdf

and here in the 2017 Super Duty owners manual under 'transmission" http://www.fordservicecontent.com/F...&div=f&vFilteringEnabled=False&userMarket=USA


Would you like me to post up manuals for all F150s, Super Duty's, Expeditions, etc for the last 5 years and reference the page numbers for you? I'd be more than happy to...


I'm not disputing this " but it’s not like Ford has cornered the market on some fantastic idea here, just look how many people have posted “WTF happened to my gear shift display”." I'm stating that it's been a documented feature in many Ford products for at least 5 years, yet you continue to incorrectly refer to it as a bug giving Ford and Raptor a bad name to those who don't know better..

Now, I don’t know if @Johnkn is a Fakenews proliferating truckzor wannabe, perhaps missed my actual question or is just jonesing for an internet fight. it’s not really relevant.

I asked where is the gear position display disappearance documented, just as I did in the previous thread about this. So here is what each manual says - all of them are completely non responsive to what I asked @Johnkn

And you'll find it here on the 2015 Expedition manual page 198 https://cdn.dealereprocess.net/cdn/servicemanuals/ford/2015-expedition.pdf


PRS (Progressive Range Selection)

With the gearshift lever in D (Drive), press the – button to active PRS. The available and selected gears will be indicated on the instrument cluster.

All available gears will be displayed with the current gear indicated. Press the – button again to lock out gears beginning with the highest gear. Example: press the – button twice to lock out 6th and 5th gears. Only the available gears will be displayed and the transmission will automatically shift between the available gears. Press the + button to unlock gears to allow the transmission to shift to higher gears. The transmission will shift automatically within the gear range you select.

where does it say the gear position display is suppressed?

and here in the 2016 F150 owners manual pages 184/185.
https://cdn.dealereprocess.net/cdn/servicemanuals/ford/2016-f150.pdf


PRS (Progressive Range Selection)

Progressive Range Selection gives you the ability to lockout gears from the automatic shifting range. This may provide you with an improved driving experience (for example, in slippery conditions or when experiencing a steep grade).

With the gearshift lever in drive (D), press the – button to active PRS. The available and selected gears are indicated on the instrument cluster. All available gears will display with the current gear indicated. Press the – button again to lock out gears beginning with the highest gear. Example: press the – button twice to lock out 6th and 5th gears. Only the available gears will display and the transmission will automatically shift between the available gears. Press the + button to unlock gears to allow the transmission to shift to higher gears. The transmission will shift automatically within the gear range you select.

where does it say the gear position display is suppressed?

and here in the 2017 Super Duty owners manual under 'transmission" http://www.fordservicecontent.com/F...&div=f&vFilteringEnabled=False&userMarket=USA

Progressive Range Selection - PRS
Progressive Range Selection gives you the ability to lockout gears from the automatic shifting range. This may provide you with an improved driving experience (for example, in slippery conditions or when experiencing a steep grade).
With the gearshift lever in drive (D), press the – button to active PRS. The available and selected gears are indicated on the instrument cluster.
All available gears display with the current gear indicated. Press the – button again to lock out gears beginning with the highest gear. Example: press the – button twice to lock out 6th and 5th gears. Only the available gears display and the transmission automatically shifts between the available gears. Press the + button to unlock gears to allow the transmission to shift to higher gears. The transmission shifts automatically within the gear range you select.

where does it say the gear position display is suppressed?

Would you like me to post up manuals for all F150s, Super Duty's, Expeditions, etc for the last 5 years and reference the page numbers for you? I'd be more than happy to…

You know what? I’m feeling particularly magnanimous today. I will start off this task for you.

2017 F150 Manual:
Progressive Range Selection

Progressive Range Selection gives you the ability to lockout gears from the automatic shifting range. This may provide you with an improved driving experience (for example, in slippery conditions or when experiencing a steep grade).

With the transmission in drive (D), press the – button to active PRS. The available and selected gears are indicated on the instrument cluster.

All available gears display with the current gear indicated. Press the – button again to lock out gears beginning with the highest gear. Only the available gears display and the transmission automatically shifts between the available gears. Press the + button to unlock gears to allow the transmission to shift to higher gears. The transmission shifts automatically within the gear range you select.

where does it say the gear position display is suppressed?

2017 Raptor Owners Supplement:

Progressive Range Selection gives you the ability to lockout gears from the automatic shifting range. This may provide you with an improved driving experience (for example, in slippery conditions or when experiencing a steep grade).

With the transmission in drive (D), press the – button or paddle to active PRS. The available and selected gears are indicated on the instrument cluster.

All available gears display with the current gear indicated. Press the – button or paddle again to lock out gears beginning with the highest gear. For example, press the – button or paddle twice to lock out 10th and 9th gears. Only the available gears display and the transmission automatically shifts between the available gears. Press the + button or paddle to unlock gears to allow the transmission to shift to higher gears. The transmission shifts automatically within the gear range you select.


where does it say the gear position display is suppressed?

I'm stating that it's been a documented feature in many Ford products for at least 5 years, yet you continue to incorrectly refer to it as a bug giving Ford and Raptor a bad name to those who don't know better..

So.... I’m going to go out on a limb and say @Johnkn is jonesing for an internet argument/fight, with perhaps a sprinkling of trying to look cool in front of his internet buddies.

Job done.

Now, fun fact: Some of this PDF files are not formatted the same way and if you attempt to “find” for example ’transmission’ or ‘PRS’ or anything for that matter, the find returns no results. However, the doc is in there, it’s just not findable in some sections of some of the PDFs.

Maybe there is some common understanding. Regardless of function and documentation, this behavior; the disappearing gear position display when the transmission is in ‘automatic’ mode, and the PRS functionality is inadvertently or intentionally engaged, does not meet the behavior expectations of most customers.

Ford has not documented this behavior to the customer base as I understand it. This behavior is not described in customer facing documentation I’m aware of which is actually why I asked where it was documented. What is in each of the manuals I’ve seen linked is this phrase: The available and selected gears are indicated on the instrument cluster.

In what reality does the above, larger font sentence in any way describe the ubiquitous disappearing gear display?

In fact, in context the manual describes the exact opposite.
With the transmission in drive (D), press the – button or paddle to active PRS. The available and selected gears are indicated on the instrument cluster.

Taken together, these 2 sentences say that upon engagement of PRS, the available gears are indicated on the instrument cluster.
That’s not entirely true, the gears are not indicated on the instrument cluster after this instruction set is followed, they disappear, which is the whole focus of numerous posts in the Gen2 general discussion sub forum.

So I suppose I’ll leave it a giving the Raptor a bad Rap and not knowing and all.

 

[Johnkn]

Great job ruining the OPs thread. Why so aggressive and emotional?

I didn't develop PRS, I didn't write the manuals, Ford did not consult me in the PRS development cycle, I've simply stated what's been shown in the owners manual for years.

Nothing is suppressed. PRS is either on or off.

Normal state is PRS = not enabled. No display screen when the PRS feature is not enabled

All owner's manuals state that PRS is enabled by hitting the "-" button on the gearshift which then displays available and current gears. Once the tool is enabled, further "-" locks out gear selection and "+" re-enables them.

Once PRS is back in as-initiated state and all gears available, pressing "+" returns it to its disabled state.

.

 

[smurfslayer]

Great job ruining the OPs thread. Why so aggressive and emotional?

I didn't develop PRS, I didn't write the manuals, Ford did not consult me in the PRS development cycle, I've simply stated what's been shown in the owners manual for years.

Nothing is suppressed. PRS is either on of off.

Normal state is PRS = not enabled. No display screen when the PRS feature is not enabled

All owner's manuals state that PRS is enabled by hitting the "-" button on the gearshift which then displays available and current gears. Once the tool is enabled, further "-" locks out gear selection and "+" re-enables them.

Once PRS is back in as-initiated state and all gears available, pressing "+" returns it to its disabled state.

.

why so reading comprehension challenged?

 

[Johnkn]

smurfslayer, I'm trying to understand your point of view, do you acknowledge this cut and paste directly from an owners manual? just Yes or no please



PRS (Progressive Range Selection)

With the gearshift lever in D (Drive), press the – button to active PRS.

The available and selected gears will be indicated on the instrument

cluster.

 

[TimmyP]

He isn't disputing that, you are missing what he is saying. He is saying regardless of whether you can lock out gears or not, the gear indicator on the dash should not be switchable to either be displayed or not. Basically, the function is fine but the numbers should never disappear. There is no point for them to disappear, unless you are locking it out of one or more of the gears. Not the whole thing either being off or on.

smurfslayer, I'm trying to understand your point of view, do you acknowledge this cut and paste directly from an owners manual? just Yes or no please



PRS (Progressive Range Selection)

With the gearshift lever in D (Drive), press the – button to active PRS.

The available and selected gears will be indicated on the instrument

cluster.

 

[Johnkn]

Absolutely no dispute here whether it would be more practical for the display to always be present.

What is stated above is 'where does it say that gear selection display is suppressed".


What Ford has documented is that the PRS feature must be manually enabled to be active and display the gears and allow lockout. If it is not enabled, or is active and unintentionally disabled the display goes away as does the ability to lock out gears.

What was stated is that the functionally we see is a bug. A bug is an unintentional (negative) result, PRS is a documented design feature which operates as described in the manuals. Should the display always be present? I certainly like it, want it, and use it 100% of the time. Others here state they don't want to see it and the current PRS design allows them to not have to view it.

thanks

 

[jaz13]

I don't have the 2019 so I'm talking out of my ass here, but the idea behind the live shocks is they adjust for current conditions. The suspension is stiffer on the road to minimize body roll and brake dive. The valves open when you hit the rough stuff, but you have to hit it first to activate the suspension. So if you are on a smooth road and hit a pothole, the suspension will be stiff for that first hit. The shocks are connected, so the rear should be opened up by the time the rear tires hit the pothole though.

The other reason the rear end feels so floaty is there is a lot less weight over the rears and it is prone to kicking out. Best advice when that happens is to get out of the power and keep the steering wheel where it is. Any kind of corrective steering input will likely make things worse. After a little experience, you will learn to trust that the back end knows what it is doing and will quickly fall back in line. At worst, the back end slips out a few inches and that is most definitely not something that requires countersteer to correct. This is one of those things that feels a lot worse than it really is.

 

[FrodoTBaggins88]

I don't have the 2019 so I'm talking out of my ass here, but the idea behind the live shocks is they adjust for current conditions. The suspension is stiffer on the road to minimize body roll and brake dive. The valves open when you hit the rough stuff, but you have to hit it first to activate the suspension. So if you are on a smooth road and hit a pothole, the suspension will be stiff for that first hit. The shocks are connected, so the rear should be opened up by the time the rear tires hit the pothole though.

The other reason the rear end feels so floaty is there is a lot less weight over the rears and it is prone to kicking out. Best advice when that happens is to get out of the power and keep the steering wheel where it is. Any kind of corrective steering input will likely make things worse. After a little experience, you will learn to trust that the back end knows what it is doing and will quickly fall back in line. At worst, the back end slips out a few inches and that is most definitely not something that requires countersteer to correct. This is one of those things that feels a lot worse than it really is.

Yeah the truck rides like a stone boat on pavement and when you hit the chop it will almost rattle you into the other lane sometimes. Definitely don't get on the gas on the choppy pavement, the truck goes crazy. I haven't been offroad with it yet since I've only had it a week but I can feel a big difference from the 17 to the 19. I just think with the live valve shocks they should give us the option to run them full soft if we want, or set them however we want like the RZR.

 

[jzweedyk]

I agree there should be some adjustment you can make. However, my 19 has almost 4,000 miles on it and I have been all over with it. Freeway, off road, desert trails, just about everything except jump it, and I think the ride is really great. Off road I lower the tires to around 15 and it makes a huge difference, and on the road around 34. The ride home from the dealer at 45 psi was terrible. The KOs are C range, so they are flexible at lower pressures, but really stiff at high pressures. Also really cold weather can make them a little more stiff. Before you complain too much about the ride, I would play with your tire pressure.

My friend with an 18 did say that mine rode a little harsher on pavement, but he always give me a hard time with my stuff, since his stuff is so much better.