2021 Raptor Is a Total BUST!!

[Jakenbake]

A couple things I noticed after watching a few more videos on it:

The 37 truck has to be indicated as such with a 37 label. Even trucks without the graphics package get subtle label in the tailgate. This was indicated as a regulation, seems silly to me.

New LCA mount is different then the regular F150. Will make raptor swaps/conversions harder. Perhaps that will make gen 2 take offs worth a little more??



PS,

If I were in the market, I am not sure if I would go 37’s or +1” travel...... that would be a tough one.

 

[jzweedyk]

If I were in the market, I am not sure if I would go 37’s or +1” travel...... that would be a tough one.

My experience with off roading is to go with the bigger tires. There may be one time a year that you need the extra 1" of travel, but the rest of the time the bigger tires will be way better as far a going over ruts and climbing and clearing obstacles. I vote for the 37's.

 

[SVTTrooper]

If I were in the market, I am not sure if I would go 37’s or +1” travel...... that would be a tough one.

My experience with off roading is to go with the bigger tires. There may be one time a year that you need the extra 1" of travel, but the rest of the time the bigger tires will be way better as far a going over ruts and climbing and clearing obstacles. I vote for the 37's.

Same, I'm currently on 37s and will go to 37s on the Gen 3.

I'd prefer to have the upfront benefits of better ground clearance and departure angles and give up an inch of travel. That can be fixed once aftermarket has had their fun designing and testing new parts for us.

 

[Dirtypope]

My Truck is 2019 with recaro and everything else. Cobb Stage 2 with full Borla exhaust is giving enough horse power. I love Gen 3 with the set up but going to the same engine it’s really not so exciting

Raptor R time is on

 

[Badgertits]

Why is that? Supercharger better for DD.


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Typically Less moving parts, less piping, fewer hose clamps, less heat, all adds up to better reliability/ease of repair for a DD - most (if not all) factory blower are roots-type meaning they bolt onto the plenum/intake manifold - truly a bolt on, self contained oiling etc-

Really these days turbocharged engines are just as reliable for the most part- but extreme use & long term reliability, maintenance, - typically don’t have to replace a SC, fairly common to do turbo replace/rebuild on a turbo car kept long term high mileage

 

[MnFlyer]

Typically Less moving parts, less piping, fewer hose clamps, less heat, all adds up to better reliability/ease of repair for a DD - most (if not all) factory blower are roots-type meaning they bolt onto the plenum/intake manifold - truly a bolt on, self contained oiling etc-

Really these days turbocharged engines are just as reliable for the most part- but extreme use & long term reliability, maintenance, - typically don’t have to replace a SC, fairly common to do turbo replace/rebuild on a turbo car kept long term high mileage

That makes sense. Thank you.


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[Vegas_Sirk]

A couple things I noticed after watching a few more videos on it:

The 37 truck has to be indicated as such with a 37 label. Even trucks without the graphics package get subtle label in the tailgate. This was indicated as a regulation, seems silly to me.

New LCA mount is different then the regular F150. Will make raptor swaps/conversions harder. Perhaps that will make gen 2 take offs worth a little more??



PS,

If I were in the market, I am not sure if I would go 37’s or +1” travel...... that would be a tough one.

Motor Trend had an article on the 37" package. It has a modified frame to fit a 37" spare, it has different shock mounting points compared to the 35" set up as well as a couple of other factory tweeks. There was a quote in the article from a Ford rep saying that you couldn't buy the regular 35" set up and then just how on aftermarket 37s and make it work the same as there were too many differences. With that said it sounds like it would be easier to make up the 1" loss with aftermarket shocks and arms than it would be to modify the frame.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/f-150/2021/2021-ford-f-150-raptor-tech-highlights/

 

[Vegas_Sirk]

Actually, it was Road & Track: https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a35399443/2022-ford-raptor-tires-too-big-for-factory/

Getting a two-inch-larger tire to fit under the third-generation truck required significant finessing. Ford completely redesigned the new Raptor's suspension, with coil springs on the rear axle for the first time in F-150 history. The 37-equipped Raptor actually loses some suspension travel—13 inches in front, 14.1 at the rear, compared to 14 front and 15 rear on a truck with 35s. The front shock absorber is upgraded with a larger rod, and 37-equipped trucks have a different spring perch location for the front suspension. The rear suspension—an all-new five-link setup with Panhard bar—gets unique shock absorbers and bump stops as part of the 37-inch tire package.

The huge tires even required modifications to the frame. Ford was adamant about equipping every Raptor with a full-size matching spare mounted under the pickup bed, and that meant finessing the frame shape and designing a new spare tire mount unique to 37-equipped trucks. The trailer hitch had to move, too, though all Raptors will share the same hitch. (There's an optional appearance package for 37-equipped trucks, a decal set that includes the number 37 in various places on the bodywork, but it's not required with the big tires.)

All of this is why the 37-inch tires come as part of a larger option package including a unique wheel design—and why you won't be able to outsmart the factory by buying a 35-equipped truck and swapping on 37s after the fact.

"The biggest thing is the stowing of the 37-inch spare. The frame that comes with the 37-inch configuration is unique to the 37-inch truck," Greco said. "A guy that gets a 35-inch-equipped truck and decides he wants to put on 37s, he’s never going to get a 37-inch spare underneath there."

 

[BaseRaptor]

I think the 3rd Gen Raptor will be last of the dinosaur juice powered trucks. My guess is that Ford’s 1/2 billion investment in Rivian will mean that the 4th Gen Raptor will be powered by DC batteries, not fossil fuels. No transfer case needed with quad motors, faster 0-60 and it will do tank turns

 

[FordTechOne]

Great reply, was hoping you'd dig deep lol

I would be curious to see the fuel flow rate/consumption mapped overtop of the dyno run. Dyno runs aren't perfect measures, and that chart doesn't take into account what I'm hinting at here. With 5.0L of displacement, over 8 cylinders looking at the bore and stroke of the coyote vs. the HO EcoBoost the v6 is (if my quick math isn't off here) roughly 50CC smaller per cylinder on top of it being a 6 versus 8 cylinder. I think the chart you posted is missing some data, but the other thing to consider is how flat the torque curve is. The v8 is going to have higher initial rolling torque off the line, with less throttle input every single time.

That data is per Ford.

Also GCWR to a large extent, is based on transmission and axle ratios as well. Obviously an engine has to be built to withstand higher load being a truck engine, but you can't compare the overall design and quality of the Audi engine to the Ford; tear one apart. Ford doesn't even use gaskets anymore on half the front-end of the damn thing to save money. I wonder how tight tolerances are, and the bearing quality and tolerance specs etc. etc.

Ive torn plenty of both apart and I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Ford’s tolerances are in line with industry standards, and bearings are polymer coated in many applications. RTV is used on oil pans and front covers on some applications, which is by no means uncommon. Everything else is sealed with gaskets and o-rings, which includes intake manifold, thermostat housing, water pump, valve covers, etc.

The image is to the wheels, and just as a quick example, two "identical" (as humanly possible) F150 trucks, one with the 3.5L EcoBoost tuned and a 5.0L coyote tuned, produces these results to the wheel. The quarter mile time with the same driver on multiple passes shows within margin of error a dead heat around 14.4 @ 95mph. Of course again, this shows wide open throttle ... but sometimes there's no comparison to more displacement and a more mechanically simple design for efficiency.

Have you read much about the Koenigsegg engines? Damn cool!

View attachment 161370

Comparing modified/tuned engines is not conclusive, as the tune is a huge variable. The 3.5 HO outperforms the F-150 5.0 in every metric. The 2019/2020 F-150 Limited uses the Raptor’s 3.5 HO and runs 13.7 @ 102MPH bone stock. I have no read about the Koenigsegg engines; I’ll take a look when I have a chance.