Independent Rear Suspension for Raptor?

Mike O said:

Looks cool and would be a blast to drive, however I don't know how this company can call it a Raptor, even if they throw the work "mini" in front of it. It is basically a Can Am with modified Raptor body parts thrown on top. It is still a side-by-side.

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they don't call it a "raptor".

Its a knine utv conversion.

they freaking RIP. If you want a mini TT, with AC and a windshield, that you can get plates for in some states, it is a legit option.

they are a ton of fun, but in all reality, cost more than a new Raptor off of a dealer lot.

DFS said:

I feel like IRS is just too one dimensional, what makes the Raptor special now is it's versatility, from towing to high speed running (relatively) and jumping with little to no adjustments needed.

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DFS,

Rear IRS is not one dimensional by any stretch in trucks.

I ponder IRS for a “halo vehicle”—which in theory the Raptor is. IRS would set the Raptor apart from the competition—easily improving handling, ride quality, high speed on-off road performance, and set the truck apart in the market.

Towing and simplicity are the advantages of a solid axle. Ford and the truck market has that covered—with a plethora of solid rear axle, leaf spring/coil spring, air bagged, etc.

Raptors to me are similar to other Ford niche vehicles—low volume (tremendously in comparison to the F150 family of trucks).

Ford has created niche/halo vehicles with success—the Shelby GT500/350 comes to mind. In the ‘00 era the SVT Cobra went IRS rear while the rest of the Mustang lineup maintained the solid axle.

My bias/experience professionally leads me to guess—every 2 Raptor owners who off-roads, there are likely 8 Raptor owners who barely put 30k miles on the truck over 3 years—with the majority being on-road (mall/grocery/family road trips).

IRS would mean more than more horsepower for me—in terms of the “halo” vehicle concept. Again, just me.

Overall—just pondering, what if?

KAH24 said:

DFS,

Rear IRS is not one dimensional by any stretch in trucks.

I ponder IRS for a “halo vehicle”—which in theory the Raptor is. IRS would set the Raptor apart from the competition—easily improving handling, ride quality, high speed on-off road performance, and set the truck apart in the market.

Towing and simplicity are the advantages of a solid axle. Ford and the truck market has that covered—with a plethora of solid rear axle, leaf spring/coil spring, air bagged, etc.

Raptors to me are similar to other Ford niche vehicles—low volume (tremendously in comparison to the F150 family of trucks).

Ford has created niche/halo vehicles with success—the Shelby GT500/350 comes to mind. In the ‘00 era the SVT Cobra went IRS rear while the rest of the Mustang lineup maintained the solid axle.

My bias/experience professionally leads me to guess—every 2 Raptor owners who off-roads, there are likely 8 Raptor owners who barely put 30k miles on the truck over 3 years—with the majority being on-road (mall/grocery/family road trips).

IRS would mean more than more horsepower for me—in terms of the “halo” vehicle concept. Again, just me.

Overall—just pondering, what if?

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While we are pondering, if IRS isn't one dimensional, care to share some advantages for it outside of desert running and jumping? No trying to be hostile, you said you are pondering, so I offered a rational critique of the idea. I don't see IRS as a functional daily driving platform for a production truck on scale with the Raptor (of which sales quantities are much higher than gen1, i've heard rumors of between 7-10% of total F-150 sales). I simply don't see the "niche" IRS truck as a void that needs filling or has actual demand. Maybe you have some insight I don't, wouldn't be the first time my ignorance has shown.

DFS said:

While we are pondering, if IRS isn't one dimensional, care to share some advantages for it outside of desert running and jumping? No trying to be hostile, you said you are pondering, so I offered a rational critique of the idea. I don't see IRS as a functional daily driving platform for a production truck on scale with the Raptor (of which sales quantities are much higher than gen1, i've heard rumors of between 7-10% of total F-150 sales). I simply don't see the "niche" IRS truck as a void that needs filling or has actual demand. Maybe you have some insight I don't, wouldn't be the first time my ignorance has shown.

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DFS, discussion is always good, as I take no offense from message board commentary.

Regarding your 7-10% rumor—I doubt that Raptor sales have/will ever be more than a small volume niche seller compared to U.S. or global F-150 sales. We are talking units of F-150 sales volume. High prices will always keep the sales volume of the Raptor (and niche cars/trucks by all manufacturers) very low as a % of units.

The luxury perception/off road image, and of course profit margins of course are high—but the profit margins are also high on F-150 Limited, King Ranch, and the high end trucks by most OEMs. I’d guess that the traditional loaded F-150s outsell the Raptor by a good margin and always will—thus making the Raptor a niche/halo in an overall category.

Top of mind, a handful of advantages of IRS include: improved ride quality/comfort, handling both on/off pavement, higher speeds off-road (to match the “desert runner” marketing). IRS would also differentiate the Raptor.

There are significant challenges with independent rear as well including weight, complexity, and likely engineering/packaging in a manner that is functional—good number of downsides. That is the fun of pondering I suppose.

(Edited: Also a rear lift is more complex on an IRS vs solid axle—but that’s not a concern).

Ultimately, it will be interesting to see how the pickup truck market evolves over the next decade or so!

Jesus people it’s not gonna have IRS it’s just gonna be coil over rear suspension on solid axle - same as Ram

FWIW 2020 ford expedition has IRS and a towing capacity upto 9300#

PlainJane said:

FWIW 2020 ford expedition has IRS and a towing capacity upto 9300#

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That's a good point but it probably has very little travel compared to the Raptor and isn't really designed to take a beating.

Pacific Wheel said:

I was being sarcastic with that post. I'm sure they'll get in or are already in trouble with Ford.

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I figured. I was only referring to the info on their website. I was wondering what Ford would do as well.

There has been a f150 prototype spotted with a IRS rear, people were guessing it was for the upcoming f150. Well that did not occur. Might be for the all electric truck? But for ford to put a IRS in a raptor that would be way to much money and development to get the travel needed. They can do so much more with the new coil rear coming out.

KAH24 said:

Regarding your 7-10% rumor—I doubt that Raptor sales have/will ever be more than a small volume niche seller compared to U.S. or global F-150 sales. We are talking units of F-150 sales volume. High prices will always keep the sales volume of the Raptor (and niche cars/trucks by all manufacturers) very low as a % of units.

The luxury perception/off road image, and of course profit margins of course are high—but the profit margins are also high on F-150 Limited, King Ranch, and the high end trucks by most OEMs. I’d guess that the traditional loaded F-150s outsell the Raptor by a good margin and always will—thus making the Raptor a niche/halo in an overall category.

Top of mind, a handful of advantages of IRS include: improved ride quality/comfort, handling both on/off pavement, higher speeds off-road (to match the “desert runner” marketing). IRS would also differentiate the Raptor.

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When Ford slapped the IRS on the SVT Mustang, they reverted back to solid axle. It was great in theory, only good in practice, and had several drawbacks on the street, drag strip and road course. I’m sure that things have advanced now, but an IRS on a Raptor would need to be orders of magnitude stronger than the Mustang unit.

If road ride is the target then Ford would be wise to consider IRS for the limited/platinum platform.

I think Ford made a solid effort to produce the Raptor in volume so that it wasn’t so much of a niche truck as a serious off road option that was exclusive, but attainable. The new interior goes a long way to address shortcomings in the marketplace, honestly, I don’t find the interior lacking. I think the massaging seats from the other models of Ford/Lincoln are an obvious choice to upgrade the truck.

Suspension is like Alchemy; part art, part science, part supernatural. When you get it right, don’t screw with it. Look at motorcycles - for years - decades, someone has been trying to come up with a front suspension option other than forks and springs; The most successful has been bmw’s tele lever / para lever. You don’t see any of them winning races. They’re big, heavy, lack adjustability and precision, and road feel is significantly compromised. IRS would be one of those mods that would need to be spec’d by engineers as a take it or leave it option, because if some cost cutter comes in and undercuts the tested platform it will have serious negative consequences for the way the truck performs, which the press will pick up on as well as end users.

This would add a lot of cost to the truck and require a lot of engineering testing. The truck would have to perform better in several areas without “giving up” anything in other areas.

I see a lot of potential cost add, for a relatively low return on investment in the Raptor platform, if any.