Should I buy a lemon?

FordTechOne said:

Ford doesn’t do “Band-Aid fixes”, not sure what you’re referring to. If a dealer performs an improper repair, that’s on them. The OEM can’t control 100% of what independently owned dealers do.

The majority of buy backs are due to dealers misdiagnosing the issue or a parts delay. I have personally repaired vehicles that had engines and harnesses replaced only to find that the tech swapped the intake and exhaust cam sensor connectors, causing them to believe the original issue was still present. I’ve seen multiple transmissions be replaced and for a spread pin terminal in the harness. I’ve repaired intermittent network concerns caused by the customer spilling a beverage in the center console. I’ve diagnosed engine performance issues that were ultimately found to be caused by rodent damage.

Per the law in most states, all of those qualified for a buyback based on repair attempts or time out of service. Yet in none of those cases was the vehicle a “lemon”; they all could have been repaired on the first attempt.

A true “lemon” is a vehicle that cannot be repaired, or repairs are too invasive to restore the vehicle to like new condition. For example, the customer complains of a noise, and it’s found that the bulkhead was improperly welded and would require thousands in structural repairs. Or the customer complains of an odor, and it’s found that water has been leaking through missing seam sealer and the entire interior needs to be replaced and chemically cleaned.

Buying a buy back vehicle does not mean you’re buying a “lemon”, it only means the vehicle qualified for BB under the law. If you have access to all of the repair history and what ultimately resolved the issue, you can get a great deal. But if you’re not technically savy or you can’t get the whole story, you’d be better off not taking the risk.

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It's almost like you're pretty knowledgeable about this stuff!

Oh crap he’s right! What have I gotten myself into?

Peck299 said:

It is hot or miss on buying a vehicle that is a dealer buy back. My wife’s last car was a great deal buy back that had to go to the shop every time she drive it. The real issue came when she had enough and wanted to trade it in. The car fax history reports a lemon/buy back etc. she got next to nothing on trade in for the car.

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That's a very good point. Trying to sell or trade-in a car at a later time that has "lemon buy back" red mark on Carfax is going to be fun. Or even getting it insured in certain states. It is probably even worse than having a salvage title.

dreys said:

That's a very good point. Trying to sell or trade-in a car at a later time that has "lemon buy back" red mark on Carfax is going to be fun. Or even getting it insured in certain states. It is probably even worse than having a salvage title.

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Both are going to impact resale substantially, since they're branded titles. But if you buy a salvage/BB at a good price and keep it long term, you can save money overall. As mentioned, it's a calculated risk that is probably not practical for a mainstream buyer.

a few points of clarification

FordTechOne said:

Buying a buy back vehicle does not mean you’re buying a “lemon”, it only means the vehicle qualified for BB under the law. If you have access to all of the repair history and what ultimately resolved the issue, you can get a great deal. But if you’re not technically savy or you can’t get the whole story, you’d be better off not taking the risk.

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A buy back does not necessarily have to be a lemon law trade in, buy back or return. There are many possible outcomes to a lemon lawsuit, most of them are a waiting game as the manufacturer waits for you to void the case, get impatient or inadvertently give over evidence of abuse. In the ensuing 3-18 months the lawsuit takes, you’re usually offered non-binding arbitration, minimal financial compensation, re-re-repair + some form of customer goodwill, a trade for a similar value model, cash settlement or ... you go to trial. A number of possible outcomes from a trial - if it’s close the judge could order you to negotiate more, he may telegraph to one or the other party they should be more flexible, you can go to the jury and lose, or you can go to the jury and win, or at some point the manufacturer may offer to settle.

typically, trade ins / like value vehicle replacement, repurchase and cash buy out occur within 1 week of the trial date. Manufacturers know they can repair the vehicle for very little cost and resell it.

If you go to trial and prevail OR, your settlement specifies, the vehicle may get the “scarlet letter” title; identifying it as a manufacturer buy back. If that’s on the title it’s the equivalent of salvage in terms of value.

dreys said:

That's a very good point. Trying to sell or trade-in a car at a later time that has "lemon buy back" red mark on Carfax is going to be fun. Or even getting it insured in certain states. It is probably even worse than having a salvage title.

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Each state and territory has their own lemon laws, but they’re based on model legislation, so contain some similarities. Some states will flag the vehicle title - see above, but not all. Additionally, if you settle prior to suing, OR, the manufacturer agrees before any papers are filed to replace your vehicle on customer goodwill, the title is not flagged. I can’t speak for carfax, oasis, etc.

I would say that selling a scarlet letter titled vehicle in the open market will definitely be a challenge and you’d better get a good purchase price because resale won’t be brilliant. I’ve never heard of insurance coverage being a problem though.

So not all buy backs are lemons, and not all lemons are buy backs. That last sentence from @FordTechOne I quote above encapsulates it all. If you’re not sure and aren’t able to readily find out, find another truck.

I had zero problems with insurance and zero problems getting an extended warranty out to 140k miles. Carfax notes the manufacturer buyback event but shows clean or positive checkmark for lemon and salvage title. Oasis report shows all transactions for the truck so easy to see what you are getting. Title is silent. My state only brands titles on salvaged, rebuilt or unsafe vehicles.

My truck was discounted about 23% from anything similar in my region. I plan to drive it roughly 140k miles and I plan to take a similar 23% hit when I sell it or trade it - albeit on a truck worth considerably less at that point through the usual depreciation.

My dogs a shelter dog too - guess I just have a thing for the abused and neglected!

I think use case also has to factor into this decision.

Are you buying the truck as a toy/weekend warrior where if any gremlins are still present it won't be a big deal to address it.

Or would this be your only vehicle/DD where reliability has to be bulletproof to get you to work on Monday.

Short answer: No.











Long answer: HELL No!

Less you are gutting it to build something from the ground up.

I bought a buyback in '10, I racked up a bunch of trouble free miles commuting daily and enjoying many off-roading adventures. I sold it 5 years later and I got great resale for it. In my experience any off-road vehicle that isn't beat up or excessively modded will fetch a good price.

Spinothalamic said:

I have found a few real sweet deals on 2018 Ford buy-backs. One says is comes with a Ford factory warranty. Do you think Ford fixed the offending issue, or are they reselling a broken truck?

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I had a 2017 that Ford could never get right, so take that into consideration.