Guide to spotting aftermarket parts and possible consequences

goblues38 said:

There is no way to hide flashing of the ECM. No amount of ignition cycles will hide the time stamp. If the ECM time stamp does not match what ford has, you are busted. They cant tell what you did to the software, but the know you did something, and that is enough. When you bought the vehicle, you signed an EULA for the software in the car and agreed you would not modify it. PERIOD.

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I have not and don't intend to tune my truck, but if I do, it will only be with a warranty (e.g. Roush). Probably even that isn't ever happening because I have an ESP plan.

That said...

Generally speaking in software development, a last-modified timestamp is a spectacularly poor security mechanism that is easily forged. What's the reference clock for that timestamp, and what powers it? There are data security and integrity checks you can use to tell a story, but on its own a last-modified timestamp is extremely weak as a security mechanism.

Would be curious to see the specific EULA you're talking about. If there is one, it may be entirely or partially unenforceable, due to warranty laws. Manufacturer lawyers say whatever they want in contracts, whether it's legal or not. That's why every contract has a severability clause so that the entire contract isn't nulled when it contains illegal components.

And I don't believe, at least from a legal perspective, that knowing you did something entitles them to void the warranty. What if you or a private mechanic reflashed your ECU with the stock firmware, e.g., to reset learned parameters? Not saying it couldn't be a situation that required courts.

Droid said:

I have not and don't intend to tune my truck, but if I do, it will only be with a warranty (e.g. Roush). Probably even that isn't ever happening because I have an ESP plan.

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Unfortunately, there are no tunes available that are warranty compliant. Roush is no different; they are aftermarket. With the amount of interest in tunes on these forums, you'd think Ford Performance would have released one by now for the Raptor. They have performance calibrations for the Mustang, Focus, and even the Ranger...but nothing for the F-150 or Raptor! I don't get it.

That said...

Generally speaking in software development, a last-modified timestamp is a spectacularly poor security mechanism that is easily forged. What's the reference clock for that timestamp, and what powers it? There are data security and integrity checks you can use to tell a story, but on its own a last-modified timestamp is extremely weak as a security mechanism.

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As soon as the calibration is captured by the dealer or FSE and uploaded for engineering review, it is easy to determine whether the calibration has been modified/overwritten.

Even the modules are now self-reporting when aftermarket calibrations are installed. If the PCM detects an aftermarket modification, it will set P064F

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Would be curious to see the specific EULA you're talking about. If there is one, it may be entirely or partially unenforceable, due to warranty laws. Manufacturer lawyers say whatever they want in contracts, whether it's legal or not. That's why every contract has a severability clause so that the entire contract isn't nulled when it contains illegal components.

And I don't believe, at least from a legal perspective, that knowing you did something entitles them to void the warranty. What if you or a private mechanic reflashed your ECU with the stock firmware, e.g., to reset learned parameters? Not saying it couldn't be a situation that required courts.

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All of the documents that come with the vehicle are vetted extensively by the legal department. I'm not sure why you think there would be anything "illegal" in the warranty contract.

As far as a "private mechanic" flashing the ECU while the vehicle is under warranty, that alone raises suspicions. Per the Ford Warranty & Policy Manual, no module should be reflashed/reprogrammed unless directed by a service message or service procedure. And how many independent shows have access to a VCMII/VCMM, let alone IDS with a valid license? Re-installing factory software isn't going to resolve any issues; that is one big red flag to me.

Also please keep in mind the dealership does not have the authority to void your warranty. Only the manufacturer does. Some dealership just want youR money or you out the door because they don’t care enough or are uneducated. Find a good one and don’t be a **** is usually a good advise for just about anything.

FordTechOne said:

Unfortunately, there are no tunes available that are warranty compliant. Roush is no different; they are aftermarket. With the amount of interest in tunes on these forums, you'd think Ford Performance would have released one by now for the Raptor. They have performance calibrations for the Mustang, Focus, and even the Ranger...but nothing for the F-150 or Raptor! I don't get it.



As soon as the calibration is captured by the dealer or FSE and uploaded for engineering review, it is easy to determine whether the calibration has been modified/overwritten.

Even the modules are now self-reporting when aftermarket calibrations are installed. If the PCM detects an aftermarket modification, it will set P064F

View media item 15065


All of the documents that come with the vehicle are vetted extensively by the legal department. I'm not sure why you think there would be anything "illegal" in the warranty contract.

As far as a "private mechanic" flashing the ECU while the vehicle is under warranty, that alone raises suspicions. Per the Ford Warranty & Policy Manual, no module should be reflashed/reprogrammed unless directed by a service message or service procedure. And how many independent shows have access to a VCMII/VCMM, let alone IDS with a valid license? Re-installing factory software isn't going to resolve any issues; that is one big red flag to me.

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I actually asked FRPP directly why no Raptor tune, and if there were any in development.

The answer I was given, was they could not find a calibration that provided enough gains, was CARB compliant, and safe for the motor. They said the amount of extra power they were able to safely generate and be CARB legal was not enough to justify selling a tune.

Same exact answer I got when I asked about a tune for the Focus RS, 3 years ago.


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Kashoggio said:

Also please keep in mind the dealership does not have the authority to void your warranty. Only the manufacturer does. Some dealership just want youR money or you out the door because they don’t care enough or are uneducated. Find a good one and don’t be a **** is usually a good advise for just about anything.

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As surprising as this may sound, they actually do.

The warranty can be cancelled by either the manufacturer or the dealership. The dealership simply fills out the Warranty Cancellation/Reinstatement forum and submits it to Ford along with any photos or documentation.

There seems to be a lot of confusion surrounding dealerships and the warranty process. Dealerships do not have the authority to go rogue and override the manufacturer's warranty. That is a fast path to a warranty charge back and an audit. This is why Ford provides a 250+ page Warranty & Policy Manual, as well as General Service Bulletins to assist dealers with warranty determination issues.

Here is the excerpt on alterations and modifications. Not sure how dealers continue to misconstrue this.

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FordTechOne said:

To clarify, Ford Performance products do not void the manufacturer’s warranty; they are just covered separately under their own warranty. Here are the details:

https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/PDFS/fpp-warranty.pdf

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Wow, good document. I was completely under the impression that even the Ford Performance "aftermarket" stuff could void the warranty, as I was led to believe by my dealership.
Thanks FordTechOne

Traffic22 said:

I actually asked FRPP directly why no Raptor tune, and if there were any in development.

The answer I was given, was they could not find a calibration that provided enough gains, was CARB compliant, and safe for the motor. They said the amount of extra power they were able to safely generate and be CARB legal was not enough to justify selling a tune.

Same exact answer I got when I asked about a tune for the Focus RS, 3 years ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Interesting insight; thanks for sharing that.

Amazing that FRPP sells a 700HP supercharger kit for the Mustang 5.0, which was never designed for forced induction, but even a mild tune for the Raptor wasn't viable. My guess would be that the issues were related to the Raptor's weight and aerodynamics, as opposed to the engine's capability and emissions output on it's own.

FordTechOne said:

As surprising as this may sound, they actually do.

The warranty can be cancelled by either the manufacturer or the dealership. The dealership simply fills out the Warranty Cancellation/Reinstatement forum and submits it to Ford along with any photos or documentation.

There seems to be a lot of confusion surrounding dealerships and the warranty process. Dealerships do not have the authority to go rogue and override the manufacturer's warranty. That is a fast path to a warranty charge back and an audit. This is why Ford provides a 250+ page Warranty & Policy Manual, as well as General Service Bulletins to assist dealers with warranty determination issues.

Here is the excerpt on alterations and modifications. Not sure how dealers continue to misconstrue this.

View media item 15066

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Correct but again it’s not the dealership voiding the warranty. It’s the manufacture. I am quite familiar the the warranty P&P. Agree that if more service personnel read the info it would help all. The dealership performs warranty work and submits to the manufacture to warranty payment , most audits happen when they warranty index is out of wack compared to the region or district but audit procedures can vary by state laws as well. Anyway , basically all I’m saying some new service advisor just cant void you warranty because he does not feel like doing his job that day.

Getting ready to have a (readyLIFT) 2.5" front leveling kit installed on my 2020 SCAB. Anyone know if this would void my warranty ?

FordTechOne said:

Unfortunately, there are no tunes available that are warranty compliant. Roush is no different; they are aftermarket. With the amount of interest in tunes on these forums, you'd think Ford Performance would have released one by now for the Raptor. They have performance calibrations for the Mustang, Focus, and even the Ranger...but nothing for the F-150 or Raptor! I don't get it.

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Me too... if Ford did one I'd probably jump on it. The tune they have for the new Ranger sounds amazing. Amortize the price of failures into the cost so we can all pay our fair share and no one gets randomly screwed with a $10k bill. Roush offers their own warranty, but it's only 3/36. 5-Star will sell you a warranty to match your ESP, but some people here have not strongly disliked their tunes, so probably not going that route.

As soon as the calibration is captured by the dealer or FSE and uploaded for engineering review, it is easy to determine whether the calibration has been modified/overwritten.

Even the modules are now self-reporting when aftermarket calibrations are installed. If the PCM detects an aftermarket modification, it will set P064F

Click to expand...

If there are protected areas of the PCM that can never be written to externally that's certainly a different animal. Like e-fuses on smartphones (from the shittier manufacturers) that set a permanent flag when you flash a custom ROM .

All of the documents that come with the vehicle are vetted extensively by the legal department. I'm not sure why you think there would be anything "illegal" in the warranty contract.

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Many work contracts and property rental contracts I've signed contained illegal clauses, and for major corporations that should *really* know better. Putting completely unenforceable clauses into license agreements is standard practice these days it seems. It's not "illegal", i.e., a crime, to do it, so long as you don't try to act on / enforce it in court. When I say "illegal" here I mean the text of the clause is superseded/invalidated by state/federal law. People still include non-compete clauses in states with laws that prohibit them. I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt the FordPass' EULA I "agreed" to is CCPA compliant. The big tech companies have been caught with their pants down on that one, I doubt Ford did better.

As far as a "private mechanic" flashing the ECU while the vehicle is under warranty, that alone raises suspicions. Per the Ford Warranty & Policy Manual, no module should be reflashed/reprogrammed unless directed by a service message or service procedure. And how many independent shows have access to a VCMII/VCMM, let alone IDS with a valid license? Re-installing factory software isn't going to resolve any issues; that is one big red flag to me.

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Hopefully more once we get right-to-repair laws in place. Not arguing against it being a big red-flag presently though.