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Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods - 3.5 Liter EcoBoost V6 [GEN 2]

Whipple Performance Upgrade Kit and Tune


This is a discussion on Whipple Performance Upgrade Kit and Tune within the Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods - 3.5 Liter EcoBoost V6 [GEN 2] forums, part of the GEN 2 (2017+) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums category!
5* is a reputable Tuner and no doubt will get their Tune sorted out for you. They have been on ...


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Old 08-18-2017, 01:03 AM   #21 (permalink)
 
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5* is a reputable Tuner and no doubt will get their Tune sorted out for you. They have been on this forum as long as I have.
Many good reviews and customer support.

They do not have access to the Raptor's file to see Ford's encrypted calibration table or edit it.
No one has! No one has Ford's Gen 1 calibration either! It's encrypted!

It's the LAW! Ford spent millions of dollars to make sure it cannot be cracked!

What they can do is remove the Stock Tune and install their own calibration platform.
Plus it is not encyrpted, it's just "Locked" this is what Tuners do.

Now getting back to Whipple's Tune, I'm sure if you had issues with the Whipple Tune that's on the PCM they will and have addressed it.
As long as you have the requirements and did not change or mod the engine beyond what the Tune was calibrated for.

The SCT platform will eventually come around, there are very smart Tuning shops out there and with the tuners at SCT they will get the files going, it's just going to take time.






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Last edited by MTF; 08-20-2017 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 09-05-2017, 01:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Guy View Post
Not at all.

They all have access to the stock maps. I didn't imply that they didn't.

From what I'm told... they were able to read the engine management and transmission management in all its glory.... or lack there of.... and from there they made their adjustments to the stock maps.

They did not Frankenstein a map from a regular 10
Speed ecoboost and graft it over the stock map.

Unless you guys know something to the contrary...

You're still not catching my point... until whipple has a way for you to flash it at home..... their tune is a one shot deal.... and if it's not what you want... you're not going to get it customized. There are VASTLY different feels to the different tunes.

I have one 5 star tune that's so aggressive the truck feels like you're driving a mustang. Instant throttle, no lag, crazy shifting where it's slamming gears... it'll suck you into the seat and lose traction for the first couple of gears.

Then I have another tune... same horsepower.... that feels like a grocery getter.

The difference between the two is the drive by wire. Transmission and torque management.

I don't doubt that whipple can make the horsepower they show on their dyno, but what you do with that power completely changes how the truck behaves.
The stock tune is EXTREMELY mild... that's for sure.

The only way I'm going to find out is to either buy their tune or drive someone else's who has it.
Hey guys, glad to answer any of the questions here.

Our kit is 50-state emissions legal therefore we are bound by some other rules/regulations that others may not be.

We also were hampered by 91 octane fuel for our testing along with a massive heat wave so we published numbers from 90-100deg ambient testing on 91 octane, not ideal for big power runs. We have made our cal more adaptable to different conditions, including different octane. On 93 octane, the same cal will pickup well over 30RWHP.

We also tested at sustained WOT for towing applications. While there is a lot to making extra power, and yes the EB motors can make more, but they also can't tolerate knock well and they have a very short fuse between knock and failure. Under a heavy towing load, sustained throttle, the motor will fail with an aggressive calibration as the knock system cannot fully control knock in some cases.

You also have to compare what power numbers one says is stock. When we are testing stock vehicles, and we've done a ton of them, they range from 320-360rwhp on 91 octane here. They vary from run to run so the "gain" can be variant on the pre-run.

We will never be the most aggressive, but we feel confidently we will always be the most reliable max power gain available.
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Old 09-05-2017, 01:14 PM   #23 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Whipple Charged View Post
Hey guys, glad to answer any of the questions here.

Our kit is 50-state emissions legal therefore we are bound by some other rules/regulations that others may not be.

We also were hampered by 91 octane fuel for our testing along with a massive heat wave so we published numbers from 90-100deg ambient testing on 91 octane, not ideal for big power runs. We have made our cal more adaptable to different conditions, including different octane. On 93 octane, the same cal will pickup well over 30RWHP.

We also tested at sustained WOT for towing applications. While there is a lot to making extra power, and yes the EB motors can make more, but they also can't tolerate knock well and they have a very short fuse between knock and failure. Under a heavy towing load, sustained throttle, the motor will fail with an aggressive calibration as the knock system cannot fully control knock in some cases.

You also have to compare what power numbers one says is stock. When we are testing stock vehicles, and we've done a ton of them, they range from 320-360rwhp on 91 octane here. They vary from run to run so the "gain" can be variant on the pre-run.

We will never be the most aggressive, but we feel confidently we will always be the most reliable max power gain available.
sounds like time for a group buy :)


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Old 09-05-2017, 01:20 PM   #24 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Guy View Post
Not at all.

They all have access to the stock maps. I didn't imply that they didn't.

From what I'm told... they were able to read the engine management and transmission management in all its glory.... or lack there of.... and from there they made their adjustments to the stock maps.

They did not Frankenstein a map from a regular 10
Speed ecoboost and graft it over the stock map.

Unless you guys know something to the contrary...

You're still not catching my point... until whipple has a way for you to flash it at home..... their tune is a one shot deal.... and if it's not what you want... you're not going to get it customized. There are VASTLY different feels to the different tunes.

I have one 5 star tune that's so aggressive the truck feels like you're driving a mustang. Instant throttle, no lag, crazy shifting where it's slamming gears... it'll suck you into the seat and lose traction for the first couple of gears.

Then I have another tune... same horsepower.... that feels like a grocery getter.

The difference between the two is the drive by wire. Transmission and torque management.

I don't doubt that whipple can make the horsepower they show on their dyno, but what you do with that power completely changes how the truck behaves.
The stock tune is EXTREMELY mild... that's for sure.

The only way I'm going to find out is to either buy their tune or drive someone else's who has it.
I think many have custom vs what we do confused.

A custom cal from other tuners typically read the stock file. From this stock file, they have access to 500-2000 different paramters, many you wouldn't touch. They then modify this and go from there for upgrades. The issue with this, first, there is well over 20,000 parameters in a stock engine file (not counting transmission). 2nd issue, there are many cals from the factory and as updates get released, more and more cals get out meaning you can apply your same changes to a different cal, but, because there are plenty of tables you can't get to, you may have to make the cal differently or it will run/react differently. Therefore you are constantly chasing the calibration. It's not bad per say, but its hard to truly have a perfect calibration when variables are changing over time.

A Whipple Ford cal is done with factory tools, factory software with OEM type support. A cal is designed to change the entire torque model, meaning all the tables are using the changes correctly, which allows the trans to shift better and overall feel like a peppy OEM cal vs quirks that some aftermarket cals can have. This cal is then applied using OEM tools to all versions of the cals, which means its a proper calibration each time. It does not need "custom" tuning which allows for the PCM to be shipped in house vs a flash tool to work. It doesn't need updates, it doesn't need to deal with surgining, knocking, etc. because its built like an OEM cal.

As for flash tools, we are working on one to be supplied with the future kits but until that day, PCM's will have to be shipped in.
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Old 09-05-2017, 04:58 PM   #25 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Whipple Charged View Post

A Whipple Ford cal is done with factory tools, factory software with OEM type support. A cal is designed to change the entire torque model, meaning all the tables are using the changes correctly, which allows the trans to shift better and overall feel like a peppy OEM cal vs quirks that some aftermarket cals can have. This cal is then applied using OEM tools to all versions of the cals, which means its a proper calibration each time. It does not need "custom" tuning which allows for the PCM to be shipped in house vs a flash tool to work. It doesn't need updates, it doesn't need to deal with surgining, knocking, etc. because its built like an OEM cal.

As for flash tools, we are working on one to be supplied with the future kits but until that day, PCM's will have to be shipped in.
given the PCM programming, what if you take the truck into the ford garage and they do an update - will the PCM segment be overwritten? or is it in a separate update area?

would hate to get a Ford update and lose the tune...


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Old 09-05-2017, 06:10 PM   #26 (permalink)
 
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Well, they can hard reset it with the help of Ford Hot Line and a new Tune encrypted with your Vin #.
They would call you first before they do anything. They would want money!!!!!
So you do have to tell the service advisor that you have the encrypted Whipple Tune on it.
The Tech at dealer will get a warming message they won't be able to access it.
They would have to call Whipple and get the instructions to view the PCM.


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Old 09-05-2017, 06:35 PM   #27 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Toadster View Post
given the PCM programming, what if you take the truck into the ford garage and they do an update - will the PCM segment be overwritten? or is it in a separate update area?

would hate to get a Ford update and lose the tune...
Our cal is a Ford supported cal, which means the dealer see's it as a new Ford Part Number, it doesn't allow them to update the PCM, but they can update any other module on the vehicle. If for whatever reason they need to put back to stock, they can force a cal but this is an extra step, therefore not standard and dealers won't do it unless you push them too.
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:46 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Whipple Charged View Post
Our cal is a Ford supported cal, which means the dealer see's it as a new Ford Part Number, it doesn't allow them to update the PCM, but they can update any other module on the vehicle. If for whatever reason they need to put back to stock, they can force a cal but this is an extra step, therefore not standard and dealers won't do it unless you push them too.

Being that it's a ford supported cal... can you speak to the issues one might have with An extended warranty and this tune or would that be a non issue since it has a ford part number?!!
Also is this available for the 2018s?!!!
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Old 09-05-2017, 07:01 PM   #29 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Whipple Charged View Post
Our cal is a Ford supported cal, which means the dealer see's it as a new Ford Part Number, it doesn't allow them to update the PCM, but they can update any other module on the vehicle. If for whatever reason they need to put back to stock, they can force a cal but this is an extra step, therefore not standard and dealers won't do it unless you push them too.
ok - so if there are PCM fixes from Ford (not tune related), would they be able to flash the PCM ?

sounds like they could contact Whipple for access?


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Old 09-06-2017, 01:49 AM   #30 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by xBryanHoodsx View Post
Being that it's a ford supported cal... can you speak to the issues one might have with An extended warranty and this tune or would that be a non issue since it has a ford part number?!!
Also is this available for the 2018s?!!!
Any aftermarket change can void a warranty, depends on the failure and the dealer. The only company that can change something within the Ford warranty is Ford themselves which is extremely rare.

Yes, available for the 18's already, actually been for nearly a month now.

---------- Post added at 10:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Toadster View Post
ok - so if there are PCM fixes from Ford (not tune related), would they be able to flash the PCM ?

sounds like they could contact Whipple for access?
Yes they can update any Module other than the main control module. There are over 20 other modules such as ABS, Body control, etc
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