GEN 2 Startup Rattle and Front Hub Grinding

Gawl128 · Mar 9, 2018

Hey guys,

First time posting, so to start, thanks for having me apart of the forums.

My 2017 Raptor is about 1 yr old, 7000 miles, and just went to the dealer for two issues that I just could sit on any longer.

1) Engine Rattle on Startup (best way I can desribe it).
- I understand this may be the timing chain
- Sounds horrible when your outside for remote start; lasts about 2-3 seconds.

2) Front hub grinding while in 2 wheel drive.
- Happens at low to medium speed
- Sounds and feels (via feedback through the accelerator) like grinding from one of the front hubs

My personal mechanic replaced the vacuume solenoid - but it did nothing. So I finally took it in to Ford...

3 days at the dealer with no resolutions. They cannot replicate the issue, so they have taken no action other then the below:

- The startup rattle they advise as normal. All Raptors they have seen have it, or so they claim.
- The are going to grease the hubs tomorrow and give it back.
- After 2 days driving it, the dealer just says they don't see/hear the issue.
I explained to the dealer this was likely, as I only see it after 20 minutes of driving usually.
- I'm asking them to verify the vacuum system has no leaks. The mechanic I'm working with informed he would confirmed, but I'm not filled with confidence they are doing the right thing.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I'm at a loss at this point. What do I do next? 3 days at the dealer, without the truck and no resolution. I'm sure I'll get it back and hear the same problems.

Dane · Mar 9, 2018

Man, I feel your pain. Those IWEs/vacuum system. I'm thinking about installing my own vacuum gauge just to monitor that.

You could check the axle nut. If that's loose it can cause issues - but typically staying IN 4WD, not the grinding. That's typically the vacuum system, but it sounds like you're on top of that. One thing I've learned - don't trust the tech. I've already been lied to multiple times. I've gotten to the point of just learning it all myself - but I'm on a Gen 1 with no warranty anymore. I used the crap out of the dealership for these problems until the warranty expired. At a minimum I'd say to test the vacuum system yourself. Also, carry a spare IWE.

Gawl128 · Mar 9, 2018

Hey Dane - thanks for your reply.

How can I test the Vacuum system myself?

I've worked on other trucks before, but none like this.

Dane · Mar 9, 2018

Gawl128 said:
Hey Dane - thanks for your reply.

How can I test the Vacuum system myself?

I've worked on other trucks before, but none like this.

Hand pump vacuum gauge like you use for bleeding your brakes.

MGD · Mar 24, 2018

Gawl128 said:
Hey guys,

First time posting, so to start, thanks for having me apart of the forums.

My 2017 Raptor is about 1 yr old, 7000 miles, and just went to the dealer for two issues that I just could sit on any longer.

1) Engine Rattle on Startup (best way I can desribe it).
- I understand this may be the timing chain
- Sounds horrible when your outside for remote start; lasts about 2-3 seconds.

2) Front hub grinding while in 2 wheel drive.
- Happens at low to medium speed
- Sounds and feels (via feedback through the accelerator) like grinding from one of the front hubs

My personal mechanic replaced the vacuume solenoid - but it did nothing. So I finally took it in to Ford...

3 days at the dealer with no resolutions. They cannot replicate the issue, so they have taken no action other then the below:

- The startup rattle they advise as normal. All Raptors they have seen have it, or so they claim.
- The are going to grease the hubs tomorrow and give it back.
- After 2 days driving it, the dealer just says they don't see/hear the issue.
I explained to the dealer this was likely, as I only see it after 20 minutes of driving usually.
- I'm asking them to verify the vacuum system has no leaks. The mechanic I'm working with informed he would confirmed, but I'm not filled with confidence they are doing the right thing.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I'm at a loss at this point. What do I do next? 3 days at the dealer, without the truck and no resolution. I'm sure I'll get it back and hear the same problems.

For the startup rattle, this is actually your cam phasers (lack of oil to them) beginning to fail. When they fail, the timing chain then stretches. Hopefully they did the cam phasers AND addressed why they were not getting oiled to begin with.

df4801 · Mar 24, 2018

MGD said:
For the startup rattle, this is actually your cam phasers (lack of oil to them) beginning to fail. When they fail, the timing chain then stretches. Hopefully they did the cam phasers AND addressed why they were not getting oiled to begin with.

More B.S from the resident troll

smurfslayer · Mar 24, 2018

Dane said:
Man, I feel your pain. Those IWEs/vacuum system. I'm thinking about installing my own vacuum gauge just to monitor that.

You could check the axle nut. If that's loose it can cause issues - but typically staying IN 4WD, not the grinding. That's typically the vacuum system, but it sounds like you're on top of that. One thing I've learned - don't trust the tech. I've already been lied to multiple times. I've gotten to the point of just learning it all myself - but I'm on a Gen 1 with no warranty anymore. I used the crap out of the dealership for these problems until the warranty expired. At a minimum I'd say to test the vacuum system yourself. Also, carry a spare IWE.

That is UNPOSSIBLE.
HERETIC! BURN HIM!

I’ve spent the last year listening to the constant refrain of how reliable the Jennifer is.

:biggrin:

@Gawl128

1) Engine Rattle on Startup (best way I can desribe it).
- I understand this may be the timing chain
- Sounds horrible when your outside for remote start; lasts about 2-3 seconds.

2) Front hub grinding while in 2 wheel drive.
- Happens at low to medium speed
- Sounds and feels (via feedback through the accelerator) like grinding from one of the front hubs

My personal mechanic replaced the vacuume solenoid - but it did nothing. So I finally took it in to Ford...

3 days at the dealer with no resolutions. They cannot replicate the issue, so they have taken no action other then the below:

- The startup rattle they advise as normal. All Raptors they have seen have it, or so they claim.
- The are going to grease the hubs tomorrow and give it back.
- After 2 days driving it, the dealer just says they don't see/hear the issue.
I explained to the dealer this was likely, as I only see it after 20 minutes of driving usually.
- I'm asking them to verify the vacuum system has no leaks. The mechanic I'm working with informed he would confirmed, but I'm not filled with confidence they are doing the right thing.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I'm at a loss at this point. What do I do next? 3 days at the dealer, without the truck and no resolution. I'm sure I'll get it back and hear the same problems.

1) We’re kind of behind here, but if the issues persist, you need to develop evidence. Use a video cam or maybe even a cell phone to record the start up. They are right, the trucks are loud at startup for a few seconds, then that is “augmented” by the rattle from the wastegate.

2) I’m not sure you’re feeling hub grinding - maybe you are. The transfer case is new, so who knows
- pull up the power distribution screen, give the truck some heavy (yet responsible) throttle - is the display showing any bias to the front wheels in 2h?
- can you successfully select and engage all the transfer case modes?
- do you feel and hear the vibes in 4a, 4h and 4L ?

The dealers mechanics aren’t always allotted a generous time for diagnosing problems, so you can either return to the dealership and schedule a drive with the mechanic or try another dealer.

Nobody is going to be able to accurately diagnose either of these issues over the internet, but I’d suggest scheduling a ride with the mechanic to address your concern. Record the cold startup and play it back for the s/a and ask the mechanic to listen. Make sure you have a receipt from the dealer that they investigated this issue. if it resurfaces later, even past the warranty end, you have evidence that you raised the concerns under warranty.

rtmozingo · Jul 4, 2018

Any update to this? I've seen three confirmed cam phasers; as much as I hate to admit MGD is right on this. Supposedly Ford has a true fix coming end of July.

smurfslayer · Jul 4, 2018

I’ve had 3 Kawasakis that all made the same sound and they were still laying down north of 150 hp at the wheel, which when you consider they’re only 1,000 cc’s, isn’t too shabby. I had one putting down 134 hp with only 30 psi compression in cylinder # 1 of 4. That was a 1990 ZX11. That bike is still running, and owned by the dealer sales manager I traded it to for my Duc.

Noise doesn’t necessarily equate to an engine problem. FWIW, a bunch of Kawa, Suz., Honda etc. motorcycles have aftermarket manual cam adjusters to alleviate the noise. For a while anyway.

rtmozingo · Jul 5, 2018

smurfslayer said:
I’ve had 3 Kawasakis that all made the same sound and they were still laying down north of 150 hp at the wheel, which when you consider they’re only 1,000 cc’s, isn’t too shabby. I had one putting down 134 hp with only 30 psi compression in cylinder # 1 of 4. That was a 1990 ZX11. That bike is still running, and owned by the dealer sales manager I traded it to for my Duc.

Noise doesn’t necessarily equate to an engine problem. FWIW, a bunch of Kawa, Suz., Honda etc. motorcycles have aftermarket manual cam adjusters to alleviate the noise. For a while anyway.

I agree. However, going off the 5.4's history, it *can* cause issues. The fact that Ford supposedly has a new part coming out and is rebuilding three engines at this point is cause for concern tho, no?

Neither me nor my service manager want to tear into a perfectly functioning engine to fix an intermittent sound - that said, I also don't want timing chain problems down the line (after warranty expires) because of this issue. Hopefully I can just get it noted on my file so that if it happens after warranty it is covered. I dunno how that works.

GEN 2 Startup Rattle and Front Hub Grinding

Gawl128

Member

Dane

FRF Addict

Gawl128

Member

Dane

FRF Addict

MGD

Banned

df4801

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smurfslayer

Be vewwy, vewwy quiet. We’re hunting sasquatch77

rtmozingo

FRF Addict

smurfslayer

Be vewwy, vewwy quiet. We’re hunting sasquatch77

rtmozingo

FRF Addict

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