Questions on WarSurfer's tire and wheel weight threads

[Riverboy]

WarSurfer, you are definitely the "orb of all knowledge" when it comes to wheels and tires. You answered a lot of questions I was getting ready to research myself. I don't even have my Raptor yet but am already thinking about after market wheels. The stocks wheels are not bad but I was thinking of trying to increase the strength and lower the weight of the wheels. Obviously a forged aluminum wheel (Centerline and Method) is a good way to accomplish that. Reducing unsprung weight and rotational mass provides all kinds of good benefits. I am getting kind of stuck on the Centerlines not because they I think they would look great but because they are strong, forged aluminum and appear to be the lightest wheels around. I am much more concerned about the performance of the wheel than the appearance but you still do not want to put something lame on your truck or, like you said, the kind of wheel you would find on an Escalade.

The Method Wheels are REALLY nice but I noticed in your post that the Centerlines are the lightest of the bunch by far and very strong. I was thinking the Centerline Wilderness Series Eight Ball (no beadlock) might be a good choice for the Raptor and assume it would weigh about the same as the Vector. Am I correct? I am a little concerned about the Centerlines though. They are all chromed or polished. Let's face it, chromed or polished aluminum wheels are not really the ideal choice for the Raptor. Don't think I can get my head around that concept. I was wondering what you guys think of the Eight Ball wheels and what options are out there to get them painted or anodized or something that might make them acceptable for a Raptor. They gotta be either black, graphite or titanium. Maybe some bare aluminum around the bead or on the spokes but not the whole wheel.

The Eight Ball comes in a 17 X 8.5 with a +32mm offset and 6.0 inch backspacing which is pretty close to the stock wheel. Since the stock TAs will suit my needs and are as light or lighter than many of the tires on your tire weight thread, I was thinking this might be a good combo.....Maybe not the best looking combo, but light weight and efficient. What do you guys think?

Also, what can you guys suggest about painting or anodizing wheels? I've never tried anything like that. Painting them does not seem like it would last very well especially not on top of polished aluminum.

 

[SilverBolt]

RB,
So far I think I am the only one that pulled the trigger on Centerline wheels. Like you I care more about weight and strength than cosmetic appearance. My wheels are supposed to arrive next week. THey are going straight to the powder coater for a satin black finish. If you go the centerline route do not order the chrome finish. It is much more difficult to paint or powder coat over chrome. The polished wheels are easy any the finish will last years.

 

[Riverboy]

SB, thanks for the info. Yeah, I figured chrome would not be the way to go if you are going to have the wheels re-finished. What style and size Centerlines did you buy? Where are you taking them to have them powder coated? I have been thinking, a titanium colored coating might be kind of cool if that even exists. Any chance of a picture when you are done?

You know, I just thought of something else. I could swear I read something not too long ago that said you need to be careful powder coating forged aluminum. After the powder coating is applied it has to be baked. If it is baked at too high a temperature it can screw up the tempering of the metal that was so important in the forging process. Will have to do a little research on that.

 

[Riverboy]

Here is a link to the Off-Road Fabrication Network which is a forum similar this one.

Forged Aluminum Wheels - OFN Forums

Or try this: offroadfabnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5099 Then add www. to the beginning. When you copy and paste the URL it does not seem to want to work.

In this thread they state that powder coating forged aluminum is not a good a idea because the baking temp is high enough to change the physical properties of forged aluminum. Crap! Not the answer I was looking for! Still need to do a little more digging on this topic but can't help but wonder about anodizing or Teflon coating. I found a powder coating shop not too far from here. Will give them a call this week to see what they have to say while I do a little digging on other options.

 

[WarSurfer]

I have a bookmark, I think, on my PC that has the weights of all the centerline wilderness wheels. I've been swamped at work so I haven't updated the post like I promised.

When I get online (on my phone now) I'll find those weights for you.

I can't remember the name off hand but there is a company that will 'simulock' any wheel and has three styles of rings. It would only add a couple pounds and do wonders for the looks of the centerlines. After a little PM discussion with SilverBolt, I am leaning towards this route. You just can't beat the strength and weight combo at that price point.

I'll post up the site for that as well.

I really wanted the trailready wheels but for near twice the price and around 10lbs heavier, it isn't worth the 'look'.

 

[BIRDMAN]

WarSurfer, you are definitely the "orb of all knowledge" when it comes to wheels and tires. You answered a lot of questions I was getting ready to research myself. I don't even have my Raptor yet but am already thinking about after market wheels. The stocks wheels are not bad but I was thinking of trying to increase the strength and lower the weight of the wheels. Obviously a forged aluminum wheel (Centerline and Method) is a good way to accomplish that. Reducing unsprung weight and rotational mass provides all kinds of good benefits. I am getting kind of stuck on the Centerlines not because they I think they would look great but because they are strong, forged aluminum and appear to be the lightest wheels around. I am much more concerned about the performance of the wheel than the appearance but you still do not want to put something lame on your truck or, like you said, the kind of wheel you would find on an Escalade.

The Method Wheels are REALLY nice but I noticed in your post that the Centerlines are the lightest of the bunch by far and very strong. I was thinking the Centerline Wilderness Series Eight Ball (no beadlock) might be a good choice for the Raptor and assume it would weigh about the same as the Vector. Am I correct? I am a little concerned about the Centerlines though. They are all chromed or polished. Let's face it, chromed or polished aluminum wheels are not really the ideal choice for the Raptor. Don't think I can get my head around that concept. I was wondering what you guys think of the Eight Ball wheels and what options are out there to get them painted or anodized or something that might make them acceptable for a Raptor. They gotta be either black, graphite or titanium. Maybe some bare aluminum around the bead or on the spokes but not the whole wheel.

The Eight Ball comes in a 17 X 8.5 with a +32mm offset and 6.0 inch backspacing which is pretty close to the stock wheel. Since the stock TAs will suit my needs and are as light or lighter than many of the tires on your tire weight thread, I was thinking this might be a good combo.....Maybe not the best looking combo, but light weight and efficient. What do you guys think?

Also, what can you guys suggest about painting or anodizing wheels? I've never tried anything like that. Painting them does not seem like it would last very well especially not on top of polished aluminum.

get the centerline's powder coated. it's about $50/wheel and probably the most durable finish

 

[Riverboy]

Birdman thanks for the info but if you go back to post number 4 I made the mistake of digging up some info that seems to indicate that powder coating forged aluminum may not be such a good idea. Probably fine for cast aluminum. Take a look. Would be interested in your opinion. Still not sure myself. Pretty bummed though because powder coating would be the perfect finish for wheels.

WarSurfer, thanks for all the research. You are right, the Trailready's are pretty much bad to the bone. A little too heavy for what I am looking for though.

I guess I could save myself a lot of time and effort if I just went with the Method wheels. Not sure if it is worth it to save 4lbs per wheel or not. The Centerlines save 10.5lbs per wheel!

 

[BIRDMAN]

Birdman thanks for the info but if you go back to post number 4 I made the mistake of digging up some info that seems to indicate that powder coating forged aluminum may not be such a good idea. Probably fine for cast aluminum. Take a look. Would be interested in your opinion. Still not sure myself. Pretty bummed though because powder coating would be the perfect finish for wheels.

WarSurfer, thanks for all the research. You are right, the Trailready's are pretty much bad to the bone. A little too heavy for what I am looking for though.

I guess I could save myself a lot of time and effort if I just went with the Method wheels. Not sure if it is worth it to save 4lbs per wheel or not. The Centerlines save 10.5lbs per wheel!

hmm i just did read up on it on a metallurgy engineering forum and apparently the "aging" temp of all aluminum is below what it takes for the powder coating to cure so it could result in a more brittle wheel.

if that's truly the case...i learned something today and would suggest you just have them professionally painted and clear coated like our factory wheels are..or inquire about this lower temp curing powder coating mentioned below. a reputable powder coater probably works with critical aluminum parts all the time...i would consider wheels "critical" and they should be able to tell you the scoop.

A word of caution regarding the powder coating of aluminum.

Forged alloy wheels are desirable because they are known to be both strong and lightweight. To achieve these characteristics, they are typically manufactured from 6061-T6 grade aluminum. At some time during the manufacturing process this alloy must undergo a two-step thermal process in order for it to attain the desired mechanical properties, which include high strength and resistance to fatigue. These thermal processing or heat treating steps are known as solution treatment (985°F) and artificial aging (350°F). With forged 6061 aluminum, the artificial aging step requires the material to be held at 350°F for about 8 hours.

The majority of powder coating materials require a cure temperature ranging from 300 to 400°F with a cure time of about 1 hour. Since this overlaps the temperature of the artificial aging step, the powder coating process has the potential to "overage" the aluminum causing embrittlement and reduced fatigue life.

Recent advances in powder coating compounds have brought about lower cure temperatures of 250°F. These new powder coating compounds are more desirable, since they do not impact the prior thermal processing steps for heat treatable alloys such as 6061-T6 aluminum.

When considering powder coating of heat treatable aluminum alloys (6000 and 7000 series), it is always advisable to confirm that the temperature of the part will not exceed 300°F. Ignoring this fact may result in a sudden and unexpected failure of a critical component. A critical failure in a forged alloy wheel could ruin not just one, but possibly the rest of your days.

Before allowing someone to powder coat your forged aluminum wheels, ask them to use a lower cure temperature (250°F) compound and to maintain the temperature below 300°F at all times while they are processing your wheels.

Additional reading: http://my.execpc.com/~davewrit/Powder.html

 

[pirate air]

This place does simu bead lock ring conversions. Its probably the place WarSurfer was thinkin. OMF Performance Products | Beadlock Conversions

I think the wheel would look pretty darn good.

 

[WarSurfer]

yup ^^^ that's the place I was talking about.

according to this .pdf:

http://centerlinewheels.com/dealers_pdf/centerline_price.pdf

all wilderness series wheels of a certain size are approximately the same weight - ie... the 8-Ball 17x9 6-135mm is the same as the Vector 17x9 6-135mm.

You can see the shipping weight is listed as 29lbs, that is for the chrome version and takes into account the box and padding - so 21lbs is about right for the polished version sans packaging.

I had a link to a website that showed all the weights for the wilderness series, I just can't find it now.

You can figure that with paint/powdercoat and a simulock ring you'll be right around 25-26lbs, still lighter than factory at 31lbs.

When you guys are looking at wheels and can't find the weight info, in most cases if you add it to your shopping cart, then calculate shipping, it will give you the shipping weight which is a couple pounds heavier than the actual weight. I really don't know why this isn't openly advertised, you would think it would be a point for competition.