Ford Raptor Brakes: Stock, upgrade, go "bigger"... ?

The subject of brakes came up elsewhere and I figured this topic deserved its own thread.

Some are saying the stock brakes are fine. Others are saying they should be upgraded. What say you?

After thinking about this a bit more myself, I wonder how much "bigger" brakes will really help us, when traction is going to be nill anyway on the dirt. Isn't the "Raptor R" coming with the same brakes our Raptors have? Isn't the stock caliper and rotor what they ran in the Baja 1000?

What advantage do you think "bigger" aka larger/more piston calipers and/or larger rotors offer over the stock brakes? For my money, I'm starting to think not much. On a road course, of course it makes sense to go big and strong because you're throwing a ton of heat at those things all the time, with very little time between to cool. You need as much heat disapating material as you can get, and as much surface area as possible to help manage the heat that does build up (aka wont fade as fast).

But in the dirt? Where we run for long periods of time at high speed and then slam down needing to stop on a dime? Isn't the dirt the limiting factor in our case?

Other upgrades, on the other hand, do make sense to me. Things like stainless steel lines to firm up the pedal and better translate the modulation, maybe a stronger pad material to aid in grab and wear characteristics, and certainly a higher quality fluid to help avoid boiling/flashing when we do need to stop on that dime.

What do ya'll think?

I hate using the brakes...

On the other hand, you assume most readers/members drive their vehicles off-road a lot. I can only speak for myself, I don't because there is really nowhere to go except the beach and I can't reach a fast enough speed in the deep sand to worry about brakes. So if I had a modded Raptor, pushing some extra ponies, I would certainly consider upgrading the brakes since it is quite often overlooked when looking for power. The truck weighs so much having extra power, trying to go faster from light to light, or racing on the streets....yeah you need bigger brakes. Off-road in the sand/dirt...not so much. In pure stock form...I doubt it but I haven't driven the 6.2.

In the end I guess it really boils down to the engine along with the driver's driving characteristics on-road. IMO there is too much resistance in the sand to worry about upgrading what we have now for a mostly off-roaded Raptor.

Damn, rabble over.

Interesting point about traction being the limiting factor, i feel like once big power numbers come into play, especially for people who are racing light to light and driving the raptor hard on the street it might make more sense/be more pressing to do a major upgrade. So far in my experience I never felt unsafe with the stock brakes, and SDHQ's lines only made me happier, but i can see applications that justify the more complete upgrade.

I have a similar feeling with the stock brakes. In fact, they probably saved a lady's life yesterday... she was totally zoned out and pulled right in front of me as she tried making a left hand turn across traffic (she was stopped on my right, and decided to go crossing my lane with me in it). I slammed it from 45 to zero and stopped short of her driver door by maybe 6". Afterwards, I came away feeling really impressed those braked dragged a 6000lb truck down to naught in such a short distance.

Still though the SDHQ mod is on my list; I would really like a more firm day-to-day feel and ss lines are perfect for that. Might as well upgrade the fluid at the same time and when it comes time for pads I'll look there as well.

But I just don't think bigger rotors or calipers would have helped. I left a pair of stripes a good 20ft long yesterday. Bigger brakes would have made no difference.

Unless like you say, people are jumping from light to light, heating the things up beyond their ability to dissipate...

Good thread. Some questions for you (all):

Can you ever have too much brakes?

Have you (all) ever driven a vehicle with excellent brakes that resist fade really well?

Are you safer if you have more power or better brakes (pick one)?

Do you only run your Raptor offroad?

Few things to point out
Heat is not the direct cause of brake fade. It's gas that is produced because hard and excessive braking and it can't be removed fast enough.
Bigger brakes are not always better then a better brake(pads and rotor) of stock size.
Anytime you're moving and not on the brakes they are cooling down which goes into why I prefer Brembo. Brembo is the official brake of NASCAR and nothing is harder on brakes then a short track more specifically Martinsville, VA. The brakes glow red hot for 500 laps. Brembo has engineer such an awesome brake package for Martinsville that the beads on the tire blow out before the brakes fail.

@Dan Can you have to much brake ummm yes and no
I've driven E93 M3, C5/C6 Vettes, Track pack and Brembo Mustangs, 5th Gen Camaros, 350Z, and 370Z.
What do you consider more power? I have more power then stock and I'm not worried about my brakes failing.

The Tank said:

Few things to point out
Heat is not the direct cause of brake fade. It's gas that is produced because hard and excessive braking and it can't be removed fast enough.

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No. You're wrong. That kind of fade is called "Green Fade" and only occurs with new brake pads when they release gases the first few times they reach high temperature. To avoid green fade you need to break in the pads or bedding them in.

Brembo brakes are good but there are a number of others equally good. NASCAR brakes are NASCAR brakes and have nothing to do with street brakes. And not being on the brakes cooling them down is unrelated to brake fade which is caused by hard, frequent use and/or brake fluid issues.

And we're not talking about brakes "failing" - we're talking about brake fade from hard repetitive use especially on a 6,000+ pound truck.

MagicMtnDan said:

Can you ever have too much brakes?

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I've had too much brakes in one situation. My Ducati 1098 came with Brembo monobloc calipers and 330 mm discs up front. The stock pads also bit really hard at mild temperatures. Grabbing a fist full of brake in 3rd gear or lower would lock up my tires in many situations. So, in those cases, I had to modulate the brakes, and a significant amount of rider skill came into play (unfortunately I was lacking). The flip side, though, was that coming down from 170 or 180 was a lot easier.

I think the parallel here is what the OP was talking about. Having brakes strong enough to overcome traction doesn't really help slow you down any faster. In some cases, it may make things worse.

If anything, I'd accept brake mods to address fade, but I also wouldn't put a dime into it until I noticed some fade.

I think this bigger brake thread comes from the car forums. Brake upgrades are really appropriate in a high HP street car. It may also be appropriate in a high HP Raptor being driven on the street hard. I don't think there's an endemic oversight of the brakes on our trucks, though, simply because the brakes are already killer and the truck was designed for off-road performance.

MagicMtnDan said:

No. You're wrong. That kind of fade is called "Green Fade" and only occurs with new brake pads when they release gases the first few times they reach high temperature. To avoid green fade you need to break in the pads or bedding them in.

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HERE LET ME MAKE IT MORE CLEAR FOR YOUWHEN YOU BUILD EXCESSIVE HEAT INTO THE BRAKE PADS THE GLUE IN THE BRAKE PAD STARTS TO BREAK DOWN PRODUCING A GAS WHICH FORMS A WEDGE BETWEEN THE BRAKE PADS AND BRAKE ROTOR IF IT CAN NOT BE REMOVED FAST ENOUGH. IT CAN HAPPEN TO NEW OR OLD PADS. TBH ANYTHING THAT GOES WRONG WITH THE BRAKE SYSTEM CAN CAUSE BRAKE FADE.

Brembo brakes are good but there are a number of others equally good. NASCAR brakes are NASCAR brakes and have nothing to do with street brakes. And not being on the brakes cooling them down is unrelated to brake fade which is caused by hard, frequent use and/or brake fluid issues.

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You're there equally as good brake companies like Baer and Willwood but I prefer Brembo. If you read instead of jumping on your soapbox you would have seen that. If the brakes are creating enough heat to melt the bead of a tire don't you thing they would be making enough heat to cause brake fade? NASCAR uses a fixed 6 piston caliber, 2 piece rotor, and some really thick brake pads hmmm not much different then some upgrade kits. Brembo is no different then every other company(well except Ferrari when Enzo ran it) they use racing to develop better products for street cars. So yes everything that is done on the track has to do with whats done on the street. You've contradicted yourself what is a by product of hard frequent stops ummm excessive heat which cause the brake pad to break down so if you're not on the brakes they cool down DUH.

And we're not talking about brakes "failing" - we're talking about brake fade from hard repetitive use especially on a 6,000+ pound truck.

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How far to do you have to push brakes passed brake fade to get to a failure umm not far. Running wide open in the desert you'll have contaminated brakes before you get to brake fade.

Tank, most/many owners don't take their Raptors offroad so discusssions of brake performance is still primarily based on street use.