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Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods-6.2 Liter V8 [GEN 1]

Whipple vs roush vs hellion


This is a discussion on Whipple vs roush vs hellion within the Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods-6.2 Liter V8 [GEN 1] forums, part of the GEN 1 (2010-2014) Ford SVT Raptor Forums category!
Originally Posted by [email protected] Thousands?? I don't think there is even 100, maybe 50 Raptors that are running a Whipple ...


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Old 03-25-2016, 03:27 PM   #41 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Thousands?? I don't think there is even 100, maybe 50 Raptors that are running a Whipple kit with 60#s and they're tune.

Whipple told us point blank we sell more Raptor blowers than any of there dealers combine! We order all our kits from them as tuner kits and send out 47# injectors and our tune. In our data base we have about 600 Raptor Supercharged customer tune files. Some of those are Roush but Id say at least half are Whipple.

Not everyone with a Whipple Raptor posts or interacts on this forum so it might be hard for you to keep up with who's happy with there 60# injector tunes. But I can tell you if I had to keep a count of how many times customers call us for complaints about driveability or want more power and switch to our injector and tune combination it has to happen at least 1-2 times per week.

As far as a power lose going from the 63#s to 47#s, injectors don't add or subtract power. Injectors need to be adequately sized to support the power your engine is making. As I stated before 47# injectors will support over 600 RWHP so you should have been well with in the range of that.

I don't think we would have a problem making 560 RWHP with a TVS I would take that bet but we don't want to push our customers that far because its a little on the edge...

You know, I try not to get on here too much but this is just not accurate.

We've been offering the 60lb Bosch DW injectors for 3 years. We have well over 1000 units out there.

47's are too small unless you run a BAP and even then your on borrowed time since the fuel psi is falling. I know, because we've tested it time and time again.

Also, 47's are a split pattern fuel injector. While this is never ideal to run, we were somewhat forced to go this route and they worked far better than expected, but the 60lb straight shot spray pattern is far better for wall wetting, cooling the valves and atomization since it's not hitting the side of the runners. To say the Bosch 60lb DW's are hard to tune is absolutely inaccurate.

There is no question, that every system gets better overtime and we've made countless updates to continue to make it better. With the 60's, we've been able to make more power safely (slightly richer targeted lambda), still have cat saver mode and plenty of fuel capacity if fuel psi falls (which certainly happens as pumps degrade) or one is running in cool conditions (denser air requires more flow capacity).

---------- Post added at 11:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 AM ----------

Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I'm not sure the numbers, MTF seems to know he should share. But we did ask Mike at Whipple as to who sells the most Raptor kits and he said we have sold over the past 5 years more than any other shop combine...

My guesstimate at 50 is probably low, but I was more making a point that our combination is out there more in volume than Whipple's. They just released there Stage 2 kit with the 60lb injectors and bigger TB because up until recently they had issues with it. We field phone calls everyday for Raptor tuning, all sorts of combinations. When we get calls for Whipple trucks with 60lb injectors which does happen every week we switch them out to 47#s and our tune and every customer has been more satisfied with our combinations.

The quality of 91-93 octane is not that great at power levels over 550 RWHP. We are concerned about detonation at that point. The factory oil pump gears are also fragile and can break. Usually they don't break as a result of power but more from drive-train vibrations ie. tire chatter and wheel hop. But when making about 700HP and 700TQ at the engine (550 RWHP) your not exactly taking it easy on the powdered metal gears either....The Rods and pistons are not forged and for that reason we also take concern. Your fuel system is also close to its limits. The fuel pump is inadequate at that point.

Yes Whipple does have their own in house calibrator who knows a ton about Ford tuning. Their files for the new 15 Mustangs are really what we recommend our customers use as we are still developing our own tuning and from what we can see there tuning is pretty awesome. But they aren't spending new R&D time on the Raptor. Their R&D goes towards new products, kits for other brand vehicles besides Ford even. So they aren't still working every day in the shop on Raptor trucks like we are! We've been doing that for the past 5 years and that's why I'm not afraid to say we are the best at it!

JimIII
Shelby hands down has purchased the most, 4-5 times anyone else as the SC is part of there offering.

Actually we just retooled the inlet and manifold for the Raptor as the casting tooling was wearing. We also just came out with a new IC pump upgrade for the Raptor's, the same that we offer the Mustang applications.

We certainly don't develop new products on 10+ year old vehicles but the Raptor is less than 2 years old and many dealers still were offering them as close to 12 months ago. It's a very important product on our application list.

Thank you
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Old 03-25-2016, 04:23 PM   #42 (permalink)
 
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We didn't notice the change to the 60lb injectors until just last year. We only order the tuner kits and utilize the 47lb injectors in our kits so it went under our radar. We did notice for sometime that our customers would relay to us that even Whipple recommend 47lbs for tuning reasons. Any of our customers who had 60lb injectors we have switched to 47lbs and have been able to support their needs with them. 47lb injectors are not too small. They are applicable up to about 700HP. On Mustang applications we've supported well over 600 RWHP with them. On the Raptor trucks we like to keep our customers under the 550 RWHP mark as I mentioned before and at that point we have plenty of fuel getting to the motor with 47lbs.

Shelby being a larger dealer by volume than us I can believe since they are building production supercharged vehicles. As far as performance shops I once was curious and asked who sold the most Raptor kits and was told it was us and that we sold more combine than any other shop. We have sold 47lb injectors to and re-tuned a number of the Shelby trucks. When people call us looking to fix there driveability issues and want more performance this is how we give it to them, and everyone ends up happier than before. More power, better fuel economy, better shifting, throttle response, etc.. Some customers complained of low idle speed almost stalling and some causes did stall. Others complained that the trucks didn't have the power they felt it should. Most of the time our tunes don't add much more power its just the throttle response that makes it feel stronger. That's all I can say. We love the Supercharger, it's why we sell so many of them and it's our preferred kit on almost every vehicle application we offer!



Originally Posted by Whipple Charged View Post
You know, I try not to get on here too much but this is just not accurate.

We've been offering the 60lb Bosch DW injectors for 3 years. We have well over 1000 units out there.

47's are too small unless you run a BAP and even then your on borrowed time since the fuel psi is falling. I know, because we've tested it time and time again.

Also, 47's are a split pattern fuel injector. While this is never ideal to run, we were somewhat forced to go this route and they worked far better than expected, but the 60lb straight shot spray pattern is far better for wall wetting, cooling the valves and atomization since it's not hitting the side of the runners. To say the Bosch 60lb DW's are hard to tune is absolutely inaccurate.

There is no question, that every system gets better overtime and we've made countless updates to continue to make it better. With the 60's, we've been able to make more power safely (slightly richer targeted lambda), still have cat saver mode and plenty of fuel capacity if fuel psi falls (which certainly happens as pumps degrade) or one is running in cool conditions (denser air requires more flow capacity).

---------- Post added at 11:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 AM ----------



Shelby hands down has purchased the most, 4-5 times anyone else as the SC is part of there offering.

Actually we just retooled the inlet and manifold for the Raptor as the casting tooling was wearing. We also just came out with a new IC pump upgrade for the Raptor's, the same that we offer the Mustang applications.

We certainly don't develop new products on 10+ year old vehicles but the Raptor is less than 2 years old and many dealers still were offering them as close to 12 months ago. It's a very important product on our application list.

Thank you


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Old 03-25-2016, 05:37 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Nice to finally see some real numbers and facts in this thread.
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Old 03-25-2016, 08:18 PM   #44 (permalink)
 
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OP, as the dust settles in this thread, I'd just like to add something I think is more crucial to your original question. Rather than get bogged down in the details of which system is better and battling it out over the merits and differences of each. There will be fanboys on either side of the argument. Both Roush and Whipple are superior products. You can't go wrong with either on your Raptor provided you choose the right installer/tuner. Do your research on the shop. Find the one with the most experience and expertise installing and tuning these power adder systems. Shelby, Livernois, Roush, and JDM are all highly reputable companies with gobs of experience and expertise and will take care of you down the road.


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Old 03-25-2016, 08:56 PM   #45 (permalink)
 
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Well Said!!!

I will add "SVC" to that list!
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:13 PM   #46 (permalink)
 
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Turbonator FTMFW!!! /thread
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:29 PM   #47 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by oxfordraptor View Post
Turbonator FTMFW!!! /thread
Your going to have to wait till the 2017s roll out.
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Old 07-02-2016, 11:08 PM   #48 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I'm currently driving a whipple'd truck and like all vehicles which are forced induction after the factory, the tune is key. The tune on the truck I'm driving is spot on and there are no issues at all with drivability.

I don't think you can go wrong with either. Depends on what you can get for a better price. If the difference isn't that much I'd get the whipple though. When you're comparing, make sure it's apples to apples (i.e. both have upgraded heat exchanger, throttle body, etc...)

What tune are you running?


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