Livernois Motorsports 6.6L and Whipple BUILD

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

SD_Plat

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Posts
77
Reaction score
22
Let me start by saying this isn’t a good news story filled with photos and dyno pulls – in fact, it’s the complete opposite at this point and, honestly, I wish I didn’t have to post this.

My truck has been with Livernois for over a year now (since September 2016) having a 6.6L with Whipple installed – a $40k bill so not insignificant. There have been a few minor nuances with this build as it’s the Superduty platform so I’m not saying that it wasn’t going to be a challenge. However, in the last three months the communication and project updates have deteriorated to the point of me banging my head against the wall every time I speak with the Livernois rep (Andy Ricketts).

This whole journey started with the incompetence and malicious behavior of Under Pressure Power and Performance who attempted to install a twin turbo system… instead, they blew up my truck not once but twice and charged me a great sum of money to do so. Suffice to say I wouldn’t recommend having them even inflate my tires in the future. I can’t really say more than that at this point.

Now, after whipple units on backorder and Livernois’ inability to deliver on a project schedule I’m faced with the challenge of bringing this to the public’s (Raptor forums) attention in hopes of someone helping me out. I’m on the West Coast of Canada so going for a drive and ‘stopping in’ at the shop isn’t really an option.

The last communication I had with Livernois was nothing but excuses and cryptic nomenclature. I requested a definitive timeline for completion and haven’t heard anything. That was over a week ago. I followed up with Tom Millen, co-owner and General Manager, on Thursday and still haven’t heard anything. To say I’m less than impressed would be an understatement.

My ask – is there anyone on here that is in the Detroit/Dearbourn Heights area that can swing by Livernois and determine what, exactly, is going on with my truck? I’m happy to cover fuel/time if that’s what it takes.

To have a $50k truck and $40K build wrapped up at a shop that is purported to be about customer service and getting things done but doing the contrary is slightly unnerving... especially when things have gone silent and we're over a year into this...

---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 PM ----------

For context, here's the email I sent to Tom Millen

Tom,

Long shot on it this email finds its way to your inbox...

If it does, I'm not expecting you to exhaustively parse through the following email chain (and multiple others) and glean every detail; I am, however, hoping for some level of resolution on the saga (journey?) that has been this truck build undertaken by your staff at Livernois. My 2013 Superduty landed in your shop in September of 2016 - over one year later and it's still not complete. Now, timing issues/delays are not 100% attributed to Livernois underperformance but, most recently, there has been a significant disconnect between project management (progress) and execution. Usually, on a $40k build there is some level of 'reasonable' engagement and overall customer assurance with respect to status, cost, challenges, priority, etc. That has not been the case on this, unfortunately.

Andy Ricketts has elected to assume a more abrasive attitude and is therefore becoming increasingly difficult to deal with. Most recently, I've been the victim of excuses and unreasonable defences on why various aspects of the build weren't working. I won't go into extensive detail but will say that I had very clear objectives going into this (which were made transparent) that have not been achieved. Do I understand there are issues that arise over a build of this level? absolutely. That said, when communication is "zero dark thirty" with no definitive project plan it makes it very difficult to support negative outlook. In my last email (sent October 15th) I asked Andy when the truck would be complete - no response or even attempt at an update.

So... I'm at a crossroads of what to do - you have my truck, $40K cash and I can't seem to get a straight answer on when it will be complete or even what is happening. I either accept this as standard practice and bury my head in the sand hoping for the best, continue to run my head against the wall in dealing with Andy, or find a good lawyer and spend money frivolously on a case that won't net me full recovery. None of those seem to be desirable options.

To end at the beginning, I sent my truck to your shop due to your reputation and expertise in this field (high performance Ford vehicles) along with the demonstrated knowledge on the 6.2L platform. I was assured that Livernois would be able to transfer those proficiencies to the Superduty (by Andy before we embarked on this build) and felt confident in shipping my truck to Livernois (I live on the West Coast of Canada). One year later, and that confidence is rapidly diminishing based on my experience.

As a co-owner of a very successful business, perhaps you can identify a more pragmatic approach to this situation.

 

MTF

FRF Addict
Joined
Nov 27, 2010
Posts
5,355
Reaction score
2,282
Location
Celebration, Florida
Wow, really sorry to see this. Livernois has a good reputation.
One off builds are tough, I hope everything works out for you.
 

shelteredraptor

FRF Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Posts
897
Reaction score
533
Location
on a rock
I'm sorry for your situation but... If I gave my vehicle and 40K to someone and they had it for a year without completing it, I would be going postal on them. The timeline should have been signed off on at conception with penalties for non-completion or at least an understanding of schedule. I have seen this happen with them on another build that went way over budget and timeframe went out the window. I realize they have a pretty good rep for the most part, but what made you go to them to begin with? There are some really good shops out there that I'm sure would be competent and cheaper . Hopefully you come to a quick resolution without having to resort to legal action.
 
OP
OP
SD_Plat

SD_Plat

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Posts
77
Reaction score
22
I'm sorry for your situation but... If I gave my vehicle and 40K to someone and they had it for a year without completing it, I would be going postal on them. The timeline should have been signed off on at conception with penalties for non-completion or at least an understanding of schedule. I have seen this happen with them on another build that went way over budget and timeframe went out the window. I realize they have a pretty good rep for the most part, but what made you go to them to begin with? There are some really good shops out there that I'm sure would be competent and cheaper . Hopefully you come to a quick resolution without having to resort to legal action.

Yeah, agreed - a transparent and tight contract would have been ideal. However, it seems like most performance shops won't hang their ass out that far due to "unforeseen challenges or circumstances". I get it, but not saying it's acceptable. There's an opportunity cost to everything...

I went with Livernois as they swore up and down that they would be able to tune any combination of motor and FI set-up (either a TT or Blower) I threw at them in the SuperDuty platform. I also assumed that due to the level/magnitude of builds that they are used to completing (in some cases $100k+), all of the issues that I'm currently experiencing would be easily mitigated AND there would be a level of quality assurance... I guess not.

With respect to legal action, that's really a last resort. Do I have the money to throw at a lawyer for this? sure. Do I think it's the best approach? not really (ask me again in a month though...)
 

biturbomg

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Posts
289
Reaction score
70
After paying for it and being out 1 year I would have already had the vehicle picked up and an attorney on them. That is complete BS to take a customers vehicle and their money and 12 months later still not be done or have an update for me. I have seen this on some other big shops and can't stress enough. Get a contract with deadlines, penalties and even a bonus if done right ahead of time and just like a building a home never give them all money up front. If a shop won't sign a contract about the work they are doing and when it will be done that is issue one and if they don't have the funds to start the project on a 10-20% down payment and the rest once done again that is an issue for me.

I feel for you and hope they finish the truck but at this point I have no faith in them and if the truck has any issues they are the place to help, doesn't make me feel good.

If possible get your money back, pick up the truck and find a shop that can and will do what you want.
 
OP
OP
SD_Plat

SD_Plat

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Posts
77
Reaction score
22
I appreciate the sympathy and support guys. Truly. Its a tough situation that I would rather just have resolved as opposed to bringing in external resources (lawyers are rarely the solution).

I should clarify a few things so it's clear:

1) this was a staged build; Livernois received the truck with a heads up that there is something wrong with the motor (I had a twin turbo system installed that was running terribly). Phase one was me paying them to strip it down. They found that connecting rods were installed backwards, incorrect piston sizing (overborred), rings were out of spec, etc. - all thanks to Casey Field (or @CK) and the crew at Underpressure Power and Performance (@UPP) in Colorado.

2) At that point, I decided that instead of having them rebuild the motor to a 6.2 I may as well go with the 6.6L. I sent them money to do so and, at that point, we hadn't decided on a compression ratio.

3) Livernois went silent for around a month (they told me it would take some time to complete the long block build) and then, all of a sudden said "hey, we're done early". I asked what compression ratio they (we) went with and was informed it was a 9.5:1. I wasn't happy with that as I wasn't convinced going FI was within my budget but let sleeping dogs lay and rolled with it.

4) As they had decided to build a 9.5:1 compression ratio motor I was left with little choice but to go with a blower - queue Whipple. I got an "all in" quote and agreed to the price - paid in full.

5) Months of backorder on the Whipple later it finally shipped in August. Livernois installed the motor and blower just in time for.... (queue the drums) ... the Stage 3 Whipple system to be "released". Now, if you want to talk about something that rubs me the wrong way this is it - refer to my statement in post one about "excuses" (enough said).


So... there have been a few milestones along the way and obvious project delays. But the way they have conducted themselves in the last few months is deplorable. I'm in the service industry (different context) and know that I would have zero customers left if I conducted business the way they have.
 
Last edited:

downforce137

FRF Addict
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Posts
1,848
Reaction score
2,391
Location
In Diana
you are probably being too nice since you're Canadian/Canadien. Work on that next.. time to start yelling at people/rather than posting on FRF
 

AndysLog

FRF Addict
Joined
Jan 12, 2017
Posts
1,125
Reaction score
527
Location
Moro IL
Looks like their were mistakes along the way made by both sides. Hopefully a solution can be had that makes both parties happy.


From the information provided it sounds like they aren’t too far from having it done?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

ROCKETW19

Full Access Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Posts
342
Reaction score
88
that sucks and that is a lot of money to hand over and not get every answer anytime you want it. I have no real input other than I hope it gets fixed for you fast.
 

Hedges4

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Posts
109
Reaction score
71
Location
Central IL
WOW-

I read your thread about the twin turbo from UPP. Figured you would get taken care of by Livernois. I'd say you've experienced the worst of the bad luck.

Did you ever get this resolved to your satisfaction?
 

Forum statistics

Threads
92,817
Posts
1,946,182
Members
56,075
Latest member
Arizona Free
Top